Autosteer and Adaptive Cruise Control

[cvollers]

If the cruise control fails (eg. over-accelerates), the manufacturer is at fault. The user/driver is not at fault. In this case the CC is a system installed by the manufacturer. If the CC is an after market mod and the manufacturer allowed it to interface with their vehicle, both the CC manufacturer and the vehicle manufacturer are at fault. The failure of the combined system is the peril, not the driver. Same goes for self-driving software.

I’m not saying that Slate’s DIY approach is without risk. Obviously they have done the math and the risk is acceptable. But these are changes to the vehicle body, not changes to the vehicle driving/operating systems. If someone incorrectly installs the roll bar after Slate did everything they could to explain how to correctly install it, the risk mostly shifts to the vehicle owner. The roll bar didn’t fail, the installation failed. If the steering fails, Slate is at fault. If Slate allows 3rd party software to control the steering and then the steering fails while the software is controlling it, then Slate AND the software manufacturer are at fault. It doesn’t matter if the vehicle owner made the decision to install and use the software.

 

[cvollers]

If it was a liability for the manufacturer- I would expect lawsuits directly blaming the manufacturer and ruling against them.

Why don’t those exist?

They do exist.

 

[KJRaven]

It’s an entirely different level from bolting down seats, roll bar, and plugging in connectors for airbags to an autonomous vehicle system. Not even remotely comparable in technical expertise needed.

It is not an apples to apples comparison, but there isnt much that is. Im also not saying that Slate needs to endorse it in any way. It would just be nice if they didnt get in the way of the team that will bypass their efforts to block it.

I do believe that if Slate was open to partnering with them then it would open the door for a much tighter integration and a much safer truck overall. Comma also addresses the insurance issue in their FAQ, while it is not a gaurantee that your insurance policy would cover you it is at least possible depending on your carrier.

I am not an insurance or legal expert, but I am a manager of a fleet manager for a small ish municipality with about 320 vehicles, and a former master automotive and master emergency vehicle technician so I am an expert in vehicle maintenance.

I would not be installing it in my fleet vehicles due to the increased liability unless it was approved by the mfg, but we ar also not doing emissions deletes or performance modifications on our fleet. I would, however be up for testing it out in my personal vehicle with minimal hesitation especially if it was a plug and play install that Slate could enable by being open to the project.

 

[Letas]

They do exist.

This is manufacture installed autopilot. Completely different.

 

[Letas]

If I buy a Chevy Malibu, LS Swap it, slap a G57 Turbo under the hood and throw 1% tint all around, then go drive 125 MPH through a school zone, I am liable - not the aftermarket or auto manufacturer.

 

[cvollers]

This is manufacture installed autopilot. Completely different.

Dude, its self-driving tech. Different name, same function.

 

[cvollers]

If I buy a Chevy Malibu, LS Swap it, slap a G57 Turbo under the hood and throw 1% tint all around, then go drive 125 MPH through a school zone, I am liable - not the aftermarket or auto manufacturer.

Of course you are at fault...you broke the speed limit, by choice. Are you trying to make an apples to apples argument? If so, you might need to try harder.

 

[Letas]

Of course you are at fault...you broke the speed limit, by choice. Are you trying to make an apples to apples argument? If so, you might need to try harder.

There will never be a perfect apples to apples argument, because this is new tech. That being said, there are endless court cases establishing that the safe operation of a motor vehicle is the sole responsibility of the driver. Maybe lawsuits have challenged that, but the precedent is overwhelmingly set.

Again, this tech is already in 300+ models of cars. Not like Slate would be the guinea pig.

It’s okay to be resistant to new tech, but that resistance cannot supersede the future.

 

[cvollers]

There will never be a perfect apples to apples argument, because this is new tech. That being said, there are endless court cases establishing that the safe operation of a motor vehicle is the sole responsibility of the driver. Maybe lawsuits have challenged that, but the precedent is overwhelmingly set.

Again, this tech is already in 300+ models of cars. Not like Slate would be the guinea pig.

It’s okay to be resistant to new tech, but that resistance cannot supersede the future.

Call me naive but I’m pretty sure Tesla wouldn’t be getting sued if self driving tech is the sole responsibility of the driver. The whole point of self driving tech is that the driver is not actually involved with driving. If not driving, then not at fault. If the driver isn’t at fault in the case of a self driving accident, then who is? The company that makes the tech AND the company that allows the tech to operate the vehicle. I don’t think Slate wants to take on that risk. I certainly wouldn’t want to.

Take your time, I’ll wait.

 

[metroshot]

Ford BlueCruise Level 2 autonomous driving for me is very nice on long stretches of road while on a road trip.

I would NOT engage BlueCruise in urban street traffic or bumper to bumper freeway traffic - that's common sense.

It does monitor your eyes so you can't sleep, text, or otherwise be distracted.

And I would not want one on the Slate - it's not a long distance driver.....

Ford's BlueCruise takes a lot of the workload off the driver's hands, arms, feet and legs.

I enjoy it so that on long distance trips I don't feel fatigued and worn out.

 

[cvollers]

Ford BlueCruise Level 2 autonomous driving for me is very nice on long stretches of road while on a road trip.

I would NOT engage BlueCruise in urban street traffic or bumper to bumper freeway traffic - that's common sense.

And I would not want one on the Slate - it's not a long distance driver.....

Ford's BlueCruise takes a lot of the workload off the driver's hands, arms, feet and legs.

I enjoy it so that on long distance trips I don't feel fatigued and worn out.

Glad it works well. What does Ford have to say in their legal disclaimer about using BlueCruise? Do they disavow all responsibility for accidents BlueCruise might cause?

 

[metroshot]

Glad it works well. What does Ford have to say in their legal disclaimer about using BlueCruise? Do they disavow all responsibility for accidents BlueCruise might cause?

Ford puts the responsibility with the driver.

Since the system uses eye tracking sensors, it will tell you if you are getting sleepy and to pull over for coffee.
And if you start texting or fiddling with your mobile, it will warn you and then cut off BlueCruise - handing the controls back to you.

I think it's a lot safer than Tesla FSD option.

I have driven long distances using BlueCruise for over 5,000 miles and no mishap or close calls.

 

[cvollers]

Ford puts the responsibility with the driver.

Since the system uses eye tracking sensors, it will tell you if you are getting sleepy and to pull over for coffee.
And if you start texting or fiddling with your mobile, it will warn you and then cut off BlueCruise - handing the controls back to you.

I think it's a lot safer than Tesla FSD option.

I have driven long distances using BlueCruise for over 5,000 miles and no mishap or close calls.

Interesting. That’s a fully vertical solution which is unlike what a few on this thread have been arguing for. Like you, I doubt anyone will be taking the Slate on highway trips long enough for something like BlueCruise to make sense.

 

[cvollers]

Interesting. That’s a fully vertical solution which is unlike what a few on this thread have been arguing for. Like you, I doubt anyone will be taking the Slate on highway trips long enough for something like BlueCruise to make sense.

From 2024. No lawsuits filed against Ford so far but the investigations might lead to legal action and/or recalls.

 

[cadblu]

While this debate is indeed entertaining, why doesn’t the OP and/or others in support of 3rd party autonomous driving software get an official read from SA? Lately their marketing and communications team have been most responsive to questions. If you do get a response, please do share with the group.

Let’s review from Slate’s perspective…. startup company with minimal tech as one of their selling points on its ‘back to basics’ vehicle. A company with zero cash flow (other than investors and $50 reservation deposits) struggling to make a profit as they will spend nearly $1B on a factory, tooling, salaries, and capital equipment in the next 18 months. A company in a hiring frenzy to fill about 2000 jobs in the same time period. A company who hasn’t even worked out a vehicle warranty as they work to develop their supply chain. A company that will avoid taking on more risk and liability as it tries to establish itself in a highly competitive industry.