Time to give up the frunk (if you want the Harvester engine)...

[colinnwn]

1. Stubbornness in the face of customer feedback also isn't a good look.

2. The point of this original thread was giving up the frunk if you want the Harvester. No one is asking for everything without compromise. Pick two: Harvester, Frunk, towing capacity. Scout decided to give up towing capacity to preserve the frunk. Some of us disagree with that and would gladly give up a frunk for being able to tow a medium-sized camper or boat.

3. We're not asking for "incredible" towing capacity, but reasonable for a full size truck. As-is the Harvester would only beat my Maverick's towing capacity by 1000 lbs, which sounds ridiculous for a truck expected to be ~2000 lbs heavier.

If Scout were to start development today with an anticipated 2031 model year release then I think I would prefer your suggestion as I really don't care about the frunk.

But this is just too big of a development restart from their original electric only vision to hit the 2028 MY goal. I'd rather them meet or slightly exceed their stated design goals, price and timeline than make a big change. These kinds of scope change and creep are why products get so delayed and expensive.

5,000 lb should be totally adequate for a medium sized boat. It's on the small end for RVs.

I still think they have the opportunity as-is to get the Terra Harvester closer to 7,000 lbs towing. The Traveler was already there and it may take a bigger hit. I also think we may see a split rating like 5,000 indefinite fuel and go range and 7,000 requiring charging and gas fill up at about 200 mile intervals.

 

[Pogeegitz]

So you’re implying the mass consumers decided towing is the priority for an EV truck? And Scout delivering anything short of that makes them stubborn?

Not what I said, but OK.

However, towing capacity is at least a consideration for many truck owners. Clearly I'm not the only one who thinks so, and you'd think it would at least make a company take notice that people are speaking up about it.

if you want to tow, get a diesel truck. I could personally care less if this thing will tow my kid’s tricycle. Give me a frunk that I’ll use 99.9999999999% more than I’ll ever need to tow

Not everyone needs the towing capacity of a turbo diesel either, but want something reasonable. If you don't care about a truck doing truck things, stick with a sedan. See what I did there?

 

[GulfBlue911]

Not what I said, but OK.

However, towing capacity is at least a consideration for many truck owners. Clearly I'm not the only one who thinks so, and you'd think it would at least make a company take notice that people are speaking up about it.


Not everyone needs the towing capacity of a turbo diesel either, but want something reasonable. If you don't care about a truck doing truck things, stick with a sedan. See what I did there?

It still does plenty of truck things even if it may not meet your standards for towing. I mean it still is able to tow Even a Suzuki Samurai can tow. But seriously if you’re looking for a truck that can get to remote areas AND tow 10,000 lb, I just don’t see this EV as that truck. Let’s just be real. People want it all and that’s just not what’s reality. I think Scout was trying to accommodate people wanting an EV but address range anxiety for off the beaten path experience. But it may come as a sacrifice and they have to sacrifice one thing over another. I respect that you want towing capacity but you just can’t have it all. I would tell myself the same thing if they gave us towing and took away the frunk, or something else. It’s going to come down to a business decision as to what makes most sense and what sells more trucks.

 

[ja_kub_sz]

The idea of a Frunk feels like a novelty to me anyway. I'm all for it, esp. for all the reasons you've mentioned.

It's only a novelty until you've had a frunk.

 

[ja_kub_sz]

Maybe I'm an old knuckle-dragger, but I really don't understand the "ride or die" attitude with frunks... It's something that didn't exist 10 years ago, but has somehow become a necessity (on a truck of all things). It's a truck, with this thing called a "bed."

A series hybrid with the engine up front seems to fix a lot of the issues like cooling, access, protection from debris, and towing capacity. I would 100% give up one (perceived) gimmicky feature for a different (perceived) gimmicky feature. For me, the extended range and/or ability to fill up on a jerry can from anywhere is waaay more important than an extra storage compartment for...?

Maybe I'm a rare breed that wants to start embracing the future of energy technologies, but still wants a truck to do "truck things" rather than a glorified golf cart.

A gear tunnel is incredible... But no frunk?

That's a bridge too far.

I wouldn't give up my frunk for anything.

 

[ja_kub_sz]

I've had 2 Tesla and now a Rivian ... think I have used the fronk like twice.

Wow!

My Model S (2015) I would put my fire gear in the frunk. My tesla never smelled like all the other guys smoldering pickups. The space was excellent! Same with left overs after leaving a restaurant. My buddy had a rear wheel drive Model S and you could put a spare tire in his frunk. It was cavernous.

The frunk is a game changer. Most EV's now due to heat pumps have impractical (practically useless) frunks.

Now with my R1T... Frunk and gear tunnel duke it out every day. Wife loves the gear tunnel, I still feel the frunk is the best.

I wouldn't consider an EV that didn't have one (a frunk) and I know if I did sell my R1T I would regret not having a gear tunnel. So I'm planning to keep it even after getting a Terra.

My relatively small R1T has more enclosed storage space then a Chevy Tahoe with 4 occupants.

Frunks are incredible.

 

[ja_kub_sz]

My firm opinion is Scout isn’t going to change the location of the engine. Sorry ya’ll.
Here is my opinions of why they won’t do that.

1. The Harvester was already an afterthought as they adjusted to market demand & changing political winds. Going back on something that was such a big part of the launch (saving the frunk space) makes them look silly….like everything is an afterthought & they have no identity.

2. Many enthusiasts believe that towing is the end-all-be all here. It just isn’t for most people. The gain of net customers by having 500 miles of range, being able to fill up with gas instead of finding a charger, all while adding 11-14 cubic feet of additional frunk space will bring in waaay more customers than being able to tow 10,000 lbs with the Harvester model. Having it all would be amazing. But just isn’t so.

3. Towing just isn’t Scouts shtick. That’s Ram Charger. If you want incredible towing capability, then look to the ram charger. The scout Terra and traveler are not going after that market.

You're absolutely right.

I had a 2015 quad cab F-150 platinum with 6½' bed, and a Model S... I've never given up my frunk, but I have given up my ICE vehicles.

My wife does have a Platinum TRD Spec Sequoia... So we can tow with that.

 

[GulfBlue911]

It's only a novelty until you've had a frunk.

How people can’t see the value of a secured frunk in a truck/SUV is beyond me. To secure anything of value in my Bronco I had to install a vault and even that has its space limitations. To secure a laptop, camera, firearm, other valuables in a truck and away from prying eyes is heaven sent. And have you ever tried putting anything that smells (like food) inside the cabin - yeah, a frunk solves that too. In my Mach-E, the frunk has a drain hole and can turn into a cooler to hold ice and has two cup holders molded into the plastic. Need to throw your wetsuit into the car after surfing or your muddy hiking boots after a long trek? You guessed it. And then easily hose it down.

If I haven’t convinced you of the value of a frunk, then it’s clearly hopeless.

With all that, Scout understands how important a frunk has become to most consumers today (every Rivian has one) and I can comfortably say I have faith there will a frunk in every model, including the Harvester.

 

[maynard]

I concede... I also admit that the only frunk I ever had was in a Volvo XC40 Recharge (wife's car) - it was pretty small and I don't think it had the drain hole and other features you all have mentioned... I have also never had a gear tunnel.

I think I started this post from a more selfish position as my boat/trailer is right at 5000 lbs. and I'm not the kind of person to max-out anything I own.

Hopefully Scout gets the towing capability up to 6000 lbs!

Apologies for creating any tensions amongst the group...

 

[E90400K]

I concede... I also admit that the only frunk I ever had was in a Volvo XC40 Recharge (wife's car) - it was pretty small and I don't think it had the drain hole and other features you all have mentioned... I have also never had a gear tunnel.

I think I started this post from a more selfish position as my boat/trailer is right at 5000 lbs. and I'm not the kind of person to max-out anything I own.

Hopefully Scout gets the towing capability up to 6000 lbs!

Apologies for creating any tensions amongst the group...

Nah, it's a great discussion point.

 

[drwing]

I concede... I also admit that the only frunk I ever had was in a Volvo XC40 Recharge (wife's car) - it was pretty small and I don't think it had the drain hole and other features you all have mentioned... I have also never had a gear tunnel.

I think I started this post from a more selfish position as my boat/trailer is right at 5000 lbs. and I'm not the kind of person to max-out anything I own.

Hopefully Scout gets the towing capability up to 6000 lbs!

Apologies for creating any tensions amongst the group...

Good topic. I don't care about the frunk but strongly believe Harvester stays put in the rear. Towing capacity has not been confirmed so it was kinda putting the boat trailer before the frunk, so to speak

I suspect towing will be higher than people currently expect. That Leno interview was a big F-up in my opinion. They probably don't want to make a definitive statement walking it back until they have a solid number after determining how to manage power under peak load. Will they combine battery and gen power like the Ramcharger? Maybe. Compared to Ramcharger, Scout has the advantage of 800v battery architecture, but the 4-cylinder engine will provide ~20% less output. If they are innovative and use something like a rectified nine phase generator they could narrow the gap a bit.

My fully loaded boat is 8000lbs so towing is a huge factor for me as well. It should be fine. If not, I will just stick with what I've got.

 

[elvis buys]

...steady state cruising could be supported by 100 HP, any incline, towing requirements will need much more power....
I think 250 HP is a bit light for most use cases.

In any EREV that has a large enough battery to supply peak power requirement long enough to, say, accelerate or climb the longest, stepest hills, the genset will only have to provide (net kW into the battery) the *average* power required to cruise at typical maximum highway speed (say, 75 - 80mph). Adding the losses due to less than 100% efficiencies in/out @ the generator & battery charging, etc. provides an estimate of the genset's engine continuous power output requirement.

Of course, the steady-state power requirement while towing is much higher, but as for inclines, regen will recover upwards of half the excess energy used to climb the hill (and it really should be a lot more than half).

The required output of a EREV genset, can be calculated easily from the commonly available energy consumption per mile, e.g.:

If an EV's energy consumption at 60mph on a level road is 2 miles per kWHr., that means that in an hour, it will consume 30kWHr.

In this example, to maintain the battery's SoC, the average net electrical power (added to the battery, after all inefficiency losses) is only 30kW.

Based on TFL's tests on youtube, towing a trailer will increase energy consumption by a factor of two to three compared to the EV by itself.

 

[E90400K]

It's only a novelty until you've had a frunk.

Eh. 45 some years ago my very first car was a '72 VW bug. Drove it only about 6-months. I've been fine frunkless ever since. I got over it. LOL

 

[E90400K]

Frunk... people just like to say it. Like, "Salsa" (Seinfeld reference).

 

[ja_kub_sz]

How people can’t see the value of a secured frunk in a truck/SUV is beyond me. To secure anything of value in my Bronco I had to install a vault and even that has its space limitations. To secure a laptop, camera, firearm, other valuables in a truck and away from prying eyes is heaven sent. And have you ever tried putting anything that smells (like food) inside the cabin - yeah, a frunk solves that too. In my Mach-E, the frunk has a drain hole and can turn into a cooler to hold ice and has two cup holders molded into the plastic. Need to throw your wetsuit into the car after surfing or your muddy hiking boots after a long trek? You guessed it. And then easily hose it down.

If I haven’t convinced you of the value of a frunk, then it’s clearly hopeless.

With all that, Scout understands how important a frunk has become to most consumers today (every Rivian has one) and I can comfortably say I have faith there will a frunk in every model, including the Harvester.

Seriously... The frunk is insanely valuable and utilitarian at it's finest.

Again... I have a pickup truck that's undersized (²R1T³) and yet between the hardcover retractable bed and my front trunk and gear tunnel I have more total cargo capacity while having my two kids in car seats and my wife in my vehicle then somebody driving a gas guzzling behemoth of a Chevy Tahoe.

Seriously the frunk is why oversized vehicles exist and if all vehicles had reasonable sized frunks, we'd be seeing cars 20% smaller then what is commonplace today.

We literally pile more stuff into our car on our Costco and Sam's club's runs than other people who drive those ridiculously sized suvs. My wife has one of those sized SUVs and even she is like I can't believe how great your truck is it's better than my Sequoia.