Bronco Pickup could kill the Ranger?!?!

[Alaska_Wolf]

Ford flatly refuses to market the Ranger. Like at all. It's the best truck in the segment and they don't want anyone to know about it. If they did, it would be significantly eating into Tacoma sales. Not immediately but in time it would definitely hurt Toyota. But for reasons that escape me, Ford just won't.

They're being strangely quiet about it, even in the shareholders news. Still their nearly non-existent marketing and competition with Toyota has bugged me quite a bit. Pretty sure last actual commercial I saw for the Gen 6 was back in 2023. I did hear rumors about a Bronco PU coming in 2029, and the Ranger being moved to TTP. All speculation, but TTP is officially beginning production a gas based truck there at that time. Still, the F 150, F 250, F 350, F 450, F 550, Maverick, Fathom, Ranger and now a Bronco PU doesn't make a lot of economic sense for a company that has been committed to reducing its overall number of models.

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[HighDesertRanger]

They're being strangely quiet about it, even in the shareholders news. Still their nearly non-existent marketing and competition with Toyota has bugged me quite a bit. Pretty sure last actual commercial I saw for the Gen 6 was back in 2023. I did hear rumors about a Bronco PU coming in 2029, and the Ranger being moved to TTP. All speculation, but TTP is officially beginning production a gas based truck there at that time. Still, the F 150, F 250, F 350, F 450, F 550, Maverick, Fathom, Ranger and now a Bronco PU doesn't make a lot of economic sense for a company that has been committed to reducing its overall number of models.

It’s an odd corporate strategy for sure.

 

[Texasota]

They're being strangely quiet about it, even in the shareholders news. Still their nearly non-existent marketing and competition with Toyota has bugged me quite a bit. Pretty sure last actual commercial I saw for the Gen 6 was back in 2023. I did hear rumors about a Bronco PU coming in 2029, and the Ranger being moved to TTP. All speculation, but TTP is officially beginning production a gas based truck there at that time. Still, the F 150, F 250, F 350, F 450, F 550, Maverick, Fathom, Ranger and now a Bronco PU doesn't make a lot of economic sense for a company that has been committed to reducing its overall number of models.

Ford has been reducing low margin (or unprofitable) models like the Focus, Fiesta, Fusion, Escape and Corsair and adding models that will hopefully be profitable.

 

[bgn]

Ranger came back to the US mostly to fill the capacity at the same plant as the Bronco and to keep people who wanted a Ford from going to Toyota, which sells 4X as many Tacomas.

It's likely lower margin than both the Maverick and the F-150. Personally, I have no interest in removable doors or roof, so this "Bronco truck" doesn't interest me at all.

 

[Alaska_Wolf]

Ford has been reducing low margin (or unprofitable) models like the Focus, Fiesta, Escape and Corsair and adding models that will hopefully be profitable.

Are we reducing low margin, unprofitable vehicles? I wouldn't say that. Ford's 2nd Qtr looks good, but the fact remains that Ford's Quarterly revenues have fallen 3.8% year-over-year, and a 10% decline YTD is not something I'm happy seeing on the balance sheet. But I'll buy the "it's investments" line. But lets take a look at these low margin, not profitable vehicles over the years that I've been an investor.

Ford quit the Ranger in 2011 because Ford decided that everyone wanted bigger trucks, and there was no profitability in the mid-sized truck market. Toyota proved them exceedingly wrong in that assessment, and continues to do that to this day. Then Ford quit the Focus, Fusion, Taurus for the same reason, there's no profitability in the sedan market. Philosophically that's a valid reason, sedan sales across the entire U.S. market have declined, but sales of well built, affordable sedans like the Camry has remained strong, steady and has not gone away.

Then Ford discontinued the Edge due to "shifting consumer preferences towards electric vehicles and larger SUVs". The Ford Edge was, and still is, a very popular and capable mid-sized SUV selling over 100,000 units annually. Yeah, I don't think the popularity of the Lightning was worth the loss of the Edge. Then the Escape was killed off, even though it was a very profitable and dependable seller with nearly 140,000 units moved in its final year. Before last year, the Escape owned the small SUV segment averaging 200,000 to 350,000 units year after year. Investors are not exactly happy because the Escape continuously outsold the Bronco Sport, making up more than half of the brand’s crossover sales. Personally I don't see anyway that Bronco Sport sales can double to recover what Ford stands to lose by ditching the Escape, which BTW was a rental fleet superstar. The Bronco Sport, unlike the Escape, is also not made in the US, its made in Mexico, FWIW.

Farley is going all in on low-cost EVs taking off and Americans wanting them, unfortunately I don't see it. They still haven't come up with solutions to fundamental problems like lack of extended range, batteries' inherent and fundamental dislike of cold temperatures (EVs hate Alaska), nor have they found a solution for the archaic US energy grid which is well past its prime, and is pretty much near capacity already. Still, all we can do is wait and see.

 

[Texasota]

Ford's 2nd Qtr looks good, but the fact remains that Ford's Quarterly revenues have fallen 3.8% year-over-year, and a 10% decline YTD is not something I'm happy seeing on the balance sheet.

The reason the 2nd quarter profit still looked good and revenue was down was because vehicles with low margins were cut. Why go for low margin volume when you can build something else that is more profitable? You can still be ahead in profit even though you sell fewer vehicles (less revenue) if those vehicles have decent margins. Revenue is meaningless if it is profitless.

Then the Escape was killed off, even though it was a very profitable and dependable seller with nearly 140,000 units moved in its final year.

The 4th generation Escape was not very profitable. The margins were low. The Escape and Corsair were discontinued so that LAP can build the Fathom EV on the UEV platform. We don't yet know how that is going to turn out. I hope it is a success and makes a profit but I have doubts.

Margins on the Fusion built at Hermosillo were also very low. It was canned so that the Maverick and Bronco Sport could be built there which are profitable and doing very well. That was a good move for Ford.

Then Ford discontinued the Edge due to "shifting consumer preferences towards electric vehicles and larger SUVs". The Ford Edge was, and still is, a very popular and capable mid-sized SUV selling over 100,000 units annually. Yeah, I don't think the popularity of the Lightning was worth the loss of the Edge.

They ended Edge and Nautilus at Oakville, Ontario to free up production space so that they could build the three row EV SUVs which were canned before production even began. They were going to be a disaster worse than the Lightning. In hindsight it was a huge disaster and contributed to the huge losses generated by Model E. Now they are going to build F-Series SD trucks at Oakville which should be quite profitable for Ford.

Lots of costly mistakes we made in the rush for EVs. It was a disaster for Ford but also GM, Honda and numerous other OEMs.

 

[Alaska_Wolf]

The reason the 2nd quarter profit still looked good and revenue was down was because vehicles with low margins were cut. Why go for low margin volume when you can build something else that is more profitable? You can still be ahead in profit even though you sell fewer vehicles (less revenue) ithe high profit vehicles are also much most costly to producef those vehicles have decent margins. Revenue is meaningless if it is profitless.

Yes, Ford's second-quarter performance was bolstered by sales of "high-margin off-road vehicles". That is unfortunately a limited market, which is contributing to declining U.S. sales. That coupled with aluminum supply shortages, Ford's costly exit from a battery joint venture, and cancellations of electric vehicle programs have all hurt. Cutting popular high volume, low cost vehicles with smaller profits margins also contributed to the losses, it was not a help. And a smaller profit margin is always better than no profit.

 

[Intercontinental_Ranger]

Ford flatly refuses to market the Ranger. Like at all. It's the best truck in the segment and they don't want anyone to know about it. If they did, it would be significantly eating into Tacoma sales. Not immediately but in time it would definitely hurt Toyota. But for reasons that escape me, Ford just won't.

Literally all they have to do is advertise that the Aussies designed it - instant off-road credibility

 

[ryanO]

Literally all they have to do is advertise that the Aussies designed it - instant off-road credibility

Completely disagree.

 

[ryanO]

The reason the 2nd quarter profit still looked good and revenue was down was because vehicles with low margins were cut. Why go for low margin volume when you can build something else that is more profitable? You can still be ahead in profit even though you sell fewer vehicles (less revenue) if those vehicles have decent margins. Revenue is meaningless if it is profitless.


The 4th generation Escape was not very profitable. The margins were low. The Escape and Corsair were discontinued so that LAP can build the Fathom EV on the UEV platform. We don't yet know how that is going to turn out. I hope it is a success and makes a profit but I have doubts.

Margins on the Fusion built at Hermosillo were also very low. It was canned so that the Maverick and Bronco Sport could be built there which are profitable and doing very well. That was a good move for Ford.



They ended Edge and Nautilus at Oakville, Ontario to free up production space so that they could build the three row EV SUVs which were canned before production even began. They were going to be a disaster worse than the Lightning. In hindsight it was a huge disaster and contributed to the huge losses generated by Model E. Now they are going to build F-Series SD trucks at Oakville which should be quite profitable for Ford.

Lots of costly mistakes we made in the rush for EVs. It was a disaster for Ford but also GM, Honda and numerous other OEMs.

This is the only conversation that truly matters in the world of automobiles right now.
Having leadership that can accurately predict where the market will be in 5 years and then meeting that is not for the faint of heart.

 

[natkill]

They ended Edge and Nautilus at Oakville, Ontario to free up production space so that they could build the three row EV SUVs which were canned before production even began. They were going to be a disaster worse than the Lightning. In hindsight it was a huge disaster and contributed to the huge losses generated by Model E. Now they are going to build F-Series SD trucks at Oakville which should be quite profitable for Ford.

Lots of costly mistakes we made in the rush for EVs. It was a disaster for Ford but also GM, Honda and numerous other OEMs.

This is the only explanation I've seen that makes sense for why they've been discontinuing these popular, well-loved vehicles. I imagine it's disappointing for a good chunk of the boomer market. My 72 year-old mother has a 2010 Edge that needs to be replaced. There's nothing out there in the Ford brand that appeals to her now, and she doesn't want to spend Lincoln money on a car at this point in her life. I'm sure her case isn't unique.

I came from a 2015 Ford Edge Sport. Loved that car. There was nothing like it to replace it with. If I hadn't already been wanting a truck, I would've ended up buying outside the Ford brand. The Exploder is too big, the Bronco Sport isn't comfortable and feels like a college girl car, and Broncos just don't appeal to me.

 

[HighDesertRanger]

This is the only explanation I've seen that makes sense for why they've been discontinuing these popular, well-loved vehicles. I imagine it's disappointing for a good chunk of the boomer market. My 72 year-old mother has a 2010 Edge that needs to be replaced. There's nothing out there in the Ford brand that appeals to her now, and she doesn't want to spend Lincoln money on a car at this point in her life. I'm sure her case isn't unique.

I came from a 2015 Ford Edge Sport. Loved that car. There was nothing like it to replace it with. If I hadn't already been wanting a truck, I would've ended up buying outside the Ford brand. The Exploder is too big, the Bronco Sport isn't comfortable and feels like a college girl car, and Broncos just don't appeal to me.

The Everest would slot in perfectly where the Edge used to be.

 

[natkill]

The Everest would slot in perfectly where the Edge used to be.

I agree with that!

 

[Texasota]

And a smaller profit margin is always better than no profit.

Not if there are higher margin opportunities available. Ford has been replacing low margin commodity products with high margin aspirational products and so far it is proving successful.

 

[Texasota]

This is the only explanation I've seen that makes sense for why they've been discontinuing these popular, well-loved vehicles. I imagine it's disappointing for a good chunk of the boomer market. My 72 year-old mother has a 2010 Edge that needs to be replaced. There's nothing out there in the Ford brand that appeals to her now, and she doesn't want to spend Lincoln money on a car at this point in her life. I'm sure her case isn't unique.

I came from a 2015 Ford Edge Sport. Loved that car. There was nothing like it to replace it with. If I hadn't already been wanting a truck, I would've ended up buying outside the Ford brand. The Exploder is too big, the Bronco Sport isn't comfortable and feels like a college girl car, and Broncos just don't appeal to me.

You just described my sentiments and situation perfectly.

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