Anyone wanting to lift/level a Ranger Raptor should read this!

[AlpineBike]

Ok. Tell me you aren't an engineer without telling me you aren't an engineer.

I’m not.
This info is coming straight from an engineer at Fox Factory who produces these shocks though.

Are you trying to convince the people of the internet that you know more than them?

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[ag02m5]

I’m not.
This info is coming straight from an engineer at Fox Factory who produces these shocks though.

Are you trying to convince the people of the internet that you know more than them?

A spacer above the shock and spring does not change where the shock sits in its travel. However, it does decrease overall travel when suspension is in full droop. It also still changes the angle of the tie rods which will increase bump steer.

It does not add preload like the perch spacer, which also changes the at-rest position of the shock. Could he have been talking about that type of spacer? If so, that is totally correct.

 

[AlpineBike]

A spacer above the shock and spring does not change where the shock sits in its travel. However, it does decrease overall travel when suspension is in full droop. It also still changes the angle of the tie rods which will increase bump steer.

It does not add preload like the perch spacer, which also changes the at-rest position of the shock. Could he have been talking about that type of spacer? If so, that is totally correct.

If you add a spacer to the top of the shock where it mounts to the upper control arm or frame it does affect the vehicles static sag. Not as much as adjusting the spring perch and directly adding preload to the spring. But it does still affect the geometry of the suspension and where the shock sits throughout its stroke when the truck is at sag.

If you adjust the spring perch or add a top hat spacer AND send your shock to Fox to be modified internally accordingly, then you will maintain the factory performance of the shock.

I agree though that neither of these things helps the increased bump steer in any way…

Unfortunately it seems like most people that are lifting/leveling their trucks care more about going to car shows in McDonald’s parking lots than actually using this truck for what it was designed to do…

 

[Catalyst]

For optimal dampening I'm sure the factory setup is in that sweet spot.

I have zero hesitation about using a small perch collar. All adjustable coil over shocks have an adjustable perch collar that is typically threaded. Some use circlips for multiple positions. Even the top performing coil overs like Ohlins do this. Dampening will be impacted - but negligible for all intents and purposes.

If it was that big of an issue, you would not have seen the Ford Performance racing team use perch collar spacers and dominate at the Finke Desert Race in Australia when they fitted 35" tires. You are still within the realm of expected travel of the dampener and are not changing spring rates. It is recommended to reset the ride height sensors when sitting static so the live valve doesn't react like it is nose high and increase dampening expecting to settle.

Is it "optimal" to the Fox engineer's specifications... no, but we aren't baja racing at 10/10ths like pros - let's be real.

 

[AlpineBike]

For optimal dampening I'm sure the factory setup is in that sweet spot.

I have zero hesitation about using a small perch collar. All adjustable coil over shocks have an adjustable perch collar that is typically threaded. Some use circlips for multiple positions. Even the top performing coil overs like Ohlins do this. Dampening will be impacted - but negligible for all intents and purposes.

If it was that big of an issue, you would not have seen the Ford Performance racing team use perch collar spacers and dominate at the Finke Desert Race in Australia when they fitted 35" tires. You are still within the realm of expected travel of the dampener and are not changing spring rates. It is recommended to reset the ride height sensors when sitting static so the live valve doesn't react like it is nose high and increase dampening expecting to settle.

Is it "optimal" to the Fox engineer's specifications... no, but we aren't baja racing at 10/10ths like pros - let's be real.

The info I posted only relates to the specific live valve shocks that are on Ranger Raptors. Fox admitted that Ford had a heavier influence on the design of them than Fox did.

i 100% agree that shocks that come with adjustable spring perches from the factory are not negatively affected like these shocks are.

I’m sure IF the Ranger Raptor that completed the Baja had these specific shocks with added spring perch spacers, then the techs had also reconfigured them internally to work properly.

Also, your assumption about recalibrating the ride height sensors is incorrect. Fox stated that doing so wasn’t even possible in regards to the live valve system…
All those sensors are looking for is shaft speed during suspension movement. Not where the shocks are in their travel.

 

[Catalyst]

The info I posted only relates to the specific live valve shocks that are on Ranger Raptors. Fox admitted that Ford had a heavier influence on the design of them than Fox did.

i 100% agree that shocks that come with adjustable spring perches from the factory are not negatively affected like these shocks are.

I’m sure IF the Ranger Raptor that completed the Baja had these specific shocks with added spring perch spacers, then the techs had also reconfigured them internally to work properly.

Also, your assumption about recalibrating the ride height sensors is incorrect. Fox stated that doing so wasn’t even possible in regards to the live valve system…
All those sensors are looking for is shaft speed during suspension movement. Not where the shocks are in their travel.

I'm not going to argue with you, you talked to an engineer so are interpreting his explanation second hand, and I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night

It's not an assumption on the ride height sensors. That's my own secondhand info from real world testing LOL! There's a video out there of a performance shop in Australia who tested perch collars before resetting ride height, and after in FORScan. It's noticeably stiffer dampening until you do.

 

[ag02m5]

If you add a spacer to the top of the shock where it mounts to the upper control arm or frame it does affect the vehicles static sag. Not as much as adjusting the spring perch and directly adding preload to the spring. But it does still affect the geometry of the suspension and where the shock sits throughout its stroke when the truck is at sag.

Please explain how an object that is completely outside the spring/shock combination is going to impact where the shock sits in its travel. I'll wait. What force has changed that is making things move?

Unless you want to argue that the tiny change in weight distribution is causing there to be a change in shock position. I'm not sure that can be measured but I'll agree that it makes sense from a physics perspective.

 

[51T]

Please explain how an object that is completely outside the spring/shock combination is going to impact where the shock sits in its travel. I'll wait. What force has changed that is making things move?

Unless you want to argue that the tiny change in weight distribution is causing there to be a change in shock position. I'm not sure that can be measured but I'll agree that it makes sense from a physics perspective.

Yea, as far as I can tell the the biggest negative to a top strut spacer ON A LIVE VALVE suspension is it pushes the axels "maybe" outside there design operating window on full droop. The solution to that is limiting straps, which are CURRENTLY not available for the ranger.

On a live valve with internal bypass setup a perch collar has way more negatives.

 

[ag02m5]

Yea, as far as I can tell the the biggest negative to a top strut spacer ON A LIVE VALVE suspension is it pushes the axels "maybe" outside there design operating window on full droop. The solution to that is limiting straps, which are CURRENTLY not available for the ranger.

On a live valve with internal bypass setup a perch collar has way more negatives.

I believe it hits full droop earlier with the spacer and therefore you are actually getting less travel of the shock. If so, would be well within its operating window. You might want the straps to stop travel before bottoming out. I won't be jumping mine so a little less travel that direction would not be an issue.

 

[AlpineBike]

Please explain how an object that is completely outside the spring/shock combination is going to impact where the shock sits in its travel. I'll wait. What force has changed that is making things move?

Unless you want to argue that the tiny change in weight distribution is causing there to be a change in shock position. I'm not sure that can be measured but I'll agree that it makes sense from a physics perspective.

Because even if a spacer is mounted above the shock, you are still changing the distance between the lower shock mount and the frame.
It would be the same change as installing a shock with a 2” longer eye-to-eye but the same stroke.

 

[Catalyst]

Yea, as far as I can tell the the biggest negative to a top strut spacer ON A LIVE VALVE suspension is it pushes the axels "maybe" outside there design operating window on full droop. The solution to that is limiting straps, which are CURRENTLY not available for the ranger.

On a live valve with internal bypass setup a perch collar has way more negatives.

Limiting straps are available from Foutz Motorsport (FMI), a supporting vendor to this community, and there are several posts showing his products including bump stops with limiting straps. Greg develops quality aftermarket products for this platform and others.

 

[Klutch]

Because even if a spacer is mounted above the shock, you are still changing the distance between the lower shock mount and the frame.
It would be the same change as installing a shock with a 2” longer eye-to-eye but the same stroke.

Because even if a spacer is mounted above the shock, you are still changing the distance between the lower shock mount and the frame.
It would be the same change as installing a shock with a 2” longer eye-to-eye but the same stroke.

Not sure I agree here. Would it not just be pushing the control or "a" arms, spindle and cv axle down further at full droop? Just increasing angles. And the amount of travel would be the same.

 

[a77cj7]

Unfortunately it seems like most people that are lifting/leveling their trucks care more about going to car shows in McDonald’s parking lots than actually using this truck for what it was designed to do…

Yes, no one would dare to use a truck with perch collars.

 

[AlpineBike]

Yes, no one would dare to use a truck with perch collars.

Idk why everyone wants to be right here.

I’ve said my piece. Simply relaying information.

There is a right way to do it, but it requires the shocks be disassembled.

If you don’t believe me, call Fox yourselves…

 

[a77cj7]

Idk why everyone wants to be right here.

I’ve said my piece. Simply relaying information.

There is a right way to do it, but it requires the shocks be disassembled.

If you don’t believe me, call Fox yourselves…

Because you’re obnoxiously posting about how anyone lifting their raptor is ruining the suspension and it must be for looking good in parking lots only.

Of course the manufacturer says adding modifications to their product is a bad idea. But they’re happy to do it if they get your money. So only they can profit.

Fox even told you most people won’t notice the difference. But no, it ruins everything.

Does moving the piston 1” higher really change the valving significantly? What if I haul 500 pounds in the bed? What if I carry passengers? Should I have custom shocks built for every weight configuration and suspension height I ever run? Better get a lifetime alignment plan and a bunch of extra hardware if I’m swapping shocks every time I use my truck.

Should I even start on the insistence that using a top mount spacer changes the performance? “It changes the suspension geometry!!!!!!” But having fox modify a factory shock with a perch collar doesn’t change it I guess.

But the stock height is perfect. O wait, ford lifted and added 35” tires to the factory race truck. And they change the shock valving for every course. But no, stock is perfect for everything.

Back to the pavement queen discussion. I have had my truck airborne with and without the collar lift. The only place I noticed any difference in ride is on pavement, right after installing the collars. How often is the piston just sitting at “stock ride height” while running off road?

Ok, I’m finished ranting now. If you don’t believe lifting your truck is a good idea, simply don’t do it. But insisting everyone that does is ruining their suspension is a bit much.
Ford probably doesn’t think I should tune my truck either, it will destroy the drivetrain. Unless they release a tune, then its perfectly ok.

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