Dealer agreed to changing my cam phasers, but I'm hesitant

[Flashe30]

So, hear me out on this one.

I had an appointment today for my second service at 30k kms or 18.6k miles. I think 20k kms is to long and I need to add oil when nearing the 15k so yeah. But regardless of that.

Previous Friday I absentmindedly started my car, not hot but definitely not cold either, and heard a rather loud rattle for like 1 or 2 seconds. It's always a bit noisy on startup but this stood out to me. But being absent minded I was doubting myself. I did mention it via mail to the dealer so they could check it out, but more like I had some proof I've mentioned it before my warranty expires next july. It didn't worry me too much actually.

Guess what, the service tech started my car after being parked for 6 hours and heard it too. So the dealer was like yeah okay, we're going to replace your cam phasers within warranty but it's an engine out job and your car will need to stay at least 3 days. Uuhm, that's not what I was expecting I guess and still not 100% sure I really have an issue with them. They only have a few RR's running and I was the first one to mention the cam phasers issue to them and even provided them the SSM.

So I might as well steered the whole situation into this, but I would be a fool to not let them change them before my warranty expires, right? The service manager didn't know if Ford has already improved the parts, so that's why I said I would rather wait it out a bit longer, 1) to get to a higher mileage before they God forbid need to be replaced a second time and 2) so Ford máybe produces an upgraded version in the meantime. Which they totally understood. I'm also not keen on them removing my engine. It's a rather small dealer with 1 senior tech who would do this job and I'm not 100% confident It'll ever be like from the factory again.

What's your take on this guys? And also, was there a trick to build oil pressure before starting the engine?

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[SubaruRaptor]

So, hear me out on this one.

I had an appointment today for my second service at 30k kms or 18.6k miles. I think 20k kms is to long and I need to add oil when nearing the 15k so yeah. But regardless of that.

Previous Friday I absentmindedly started my car, not hot but definitely not cold either, and heard a rather loud rattle for like 1 or 2 seconds. It's always a bit noisy on startup but this stood out to me. But being absent minded I was doubting myself. I did mention it via mail to the dealer so they could check it out, but more like I had some proof I've mentioned it before my warranty expires next july. It didn't worry me too much actually.

Guess what, the service tech started my car after being parked for 6 hours and heard it too. So the dealer was like yeah okay, we're going to replace your cam phasers within warranty but it's an engine out job and your car will need to stay at least 3 days. Uuhm, that's not what I was expecting I guess and still not 100% sure I really have an issue with them. They only have a few RR's running and I was the first one to mention the cam phasers issue to them and even provided them the SSM.

So I might as well steered the whole situation into this, but I would be a fool to not let them change them before my warranty expires, right? The service manager didn't know if Ford has already improved the parts, so that's why I said I would rather wait it out a bit longer, 1) to get to a higher mileage before they God forbid need to be replaced a second time and 2) so Ford máybe produces an upgraded version in the meantime. Which they totally understood. I'm also not keen on them removing my engine. It's a rather small dealer with 1 senior tech who would do this job and I'm not 100% confident I'll ever be like from the factory again.

What's your take on this guys? And also, was there a trick to build oil pressure before starting the engine?

The CAM phaser issue is a known problem and has been an issue for a long time. You can search here and there are many threads about it. Its not a Raptor specific problem. The part is not improved unfortunately and the ones they can be replaced with could develop the same issue.

You worry to much, have them replace it.

 

[Bmadda]

You can hold the gas pedal to the floor and crank the engine to pump oil to the phasers. Holding the gas pedal to the floor should put it in "clear flood" mode which will turn the injectors off and prevent the engine from starting. If you crank it for a couple seconds without allowing it to start, then start it right away and there is no noise, then it definitely is a cam phaser. The problem they develop is that oil leaks out of them while the engine is shut off for an extended period. To my knowledge this problem has never been fully "fixed", but typically new phasers do fix the problem in the short term at least

 

[unixadm]

I'd just let them fix it. If they're a Ford dealer, chances are they've replaced their fair share of phasers.

 

[Flashe30]

The CAM phaser issue is a known problem and has been an issue for a long time. You can search here and there are many threads about it. Its not a Raptor specific problem. The part is not improved unfortunately and the ones they can be replaced with could develop the same issue.

You worry to much, have them replace it.

That's why I'd rather wait a couple more months. This is a car I would need to drive 5 years registered on my company and then decide to keep it or sell it. But it's in my best interest to keep it at least 5 years and I would rather not have them replaced a second time which I would more than likely have to pay for myself.

You can hold the gas pedal to the floor and crank the engine to pump oil to the phasers. Holding the gas pedal to the floor should put it in "clear flood" mode which will turn the injectors off and prevent the engine from starting. If you crank it for a couple seconds without allowing it to start, then start it right away and there is no noise, then it definitely is a cam phaser. The problem they develop is that oil leaks out of them while the engine is shut off for an extended period. To my knowledge this problem has never been fully "fixed", but typically new phasers do fix the problem in the short term at least

Thank you!

I'd just let them fix it. If they're a Ford dealer, chances are they've replaced their fair share of phasers.

Not too sure about them having replaced a lot of phasers. This is a Belgian dealer so no F150's etc and the senior tech said it would be his first time (don't know if he meant on Rangers only) and he ordered some special tools for it....

 

[SubaruRaptor]

That's why I'd rather wait a couple more months. This is a car I would need to drive 5 years registered on my company and then decide to keep it or sell it. But it's in my best interest to keep it at least 5 years and I would rather not have them replaced a second time which I would more than likely have to pay for myself.

Waiting wont do anything. As mentioned the part and failure has been happening for years. There has been no design change. You getting a new part has the same exact failure rate as the current part. Cam phaser failure is, by reports on this forum, more often seen brand new anyway but it does or can occur elsewhere. You are going to do whatever in the end, but there is no logical reason to wait to have Ford fix it, or worry about the tech working on it.

This is not some exotic sports car. Its funny how this forum behaves around who is doing what to their trucks. People at the factory building it, they arent good enough to build it. Ford trained technicians at the dealers, arent good enough to work on it. I'll totally just do it myself or have random guy do it though, seems logical.

Yes, there are horror stories of dealers messing up peoples vehicles but if you look at the context of how that comes its extremely rare. Millions of people take their car to the dealer for repairs and such and dont bat an eye. Hell ,I have even had 2 bad dealer experience myself where they left the oil drain plug loose on my forester and it leaked oil and they broke some trim on a seat I had replaced. Guess what though, they made it right in the end all is well.

Stress less.

 

[Flashe30]

Waiting wont do anything. As mentioned the part and failure has been happening for years. There has been no design change. You getting a new part has the same exact failure rate as the current part. Cam phaser failure is, by reports on this forum, more often seen brand new anyway but it does or can occur elsewhere. You are going to do whatever in the end, but there is no logical reason to wait to have Ford fix it, or worry about the tech working on it.

This is not some exotic sports car. Its funny how this forum behaves around who is doing what to their trucks. People at the factory building it, they arent good enough to build it. Ford trained technicians at the dealers, arent good enough to work on it. I'll totally just do it myself or have random guy do it though, seems logical.

Yes, there are horror stories of dealers messing up peoples vehicles but if you look at the context of how that comes its extremely rare. Millions of people take their car to the dealer for repairs and such and dont bat an eye. Hell ,I have even had 2 bad dealer experience myself where they left the oil drain plug loose on my forester and it leaked oil and they broke some trim on a seat I had replaced. Guess what though, they made it right in the end all is well.

Stress less.

I really appreciate your input. I get the feeling however you fail to see my concerns. I wouldn't wait solely for the small chance of Ford upgrading the parts.

I will have them replaced by the dealer, I would be stupid otherwise as I said in the OP. BUT, I'd rather wait till just before the end of my warranty, if it doesn't get any worse ofcourse. Let's suppose I'll do 100k kms with the RR before selling it. Now I'm at 30k and I have them replaced. That means I could have them fail another 2 times and the next 2 times will be out of warranty, we only got 2 years over here. You see my point? I'd rather ride it out till 50k (again, if possible) and reduce my chances of them failing again during my ownership of the car. Okay I get that it's kinda random and the next set could last 100k, but they also could last 10k. By waiting a bit longer I'm reducing the chances of me needing to spend my own money on it.

It's also definitely not (yet) like the videos I've seen on here on mine and tbh I don't trust the mechanic's judgement on the sound as I'm pretty sure it would be his first 3.0.

 

[SubaruRaptor]

I really appreciate your input. I get the feeling however you fail to see my concerns.

I will have them replaced by the dealer, I would be stupid otherwise as I said in the OP. BUT, I'd rather wait till just before the end of my warranty, if it doesn't get any worse ofcourse. Let's suppose I'll do 100k kms with the RR before selling it. Now I'm at 30k and I have them replaced. That means I could have them fail another 2 times and the next 2 times will be out of warranty, we only got 2 years over here. You see my point? I'd rather ride it out till 50k (again, if possible) and reduce my chances of them failing again during my ownership of the car. Okay I get that it's kinda random and the next set could last 100k, but they also could last 10k. By waiting a bit longer I'm reducing the chances of me needing to spend my own money on it.

I do understand the issue. What im trying to explain to you is, a lot of cam failures happen within the first 1k miles. People on this forum have had back to back failures. So by waiting, you run the risk of it failing very early, which they are semi-prone to do and you are out of luck. By replacing them now, you can hope to avoid that scenario out of pocket.

 

[Flashe30]

I do understand the issue. What im trying to explain to you is, a lot of cam failures happen within the first 1k miles. People on this forum have had back to back failures. So by waiting, you run the risk of it failing very early, which they are semi-prone to do and you are out of luck. By replacing them now, you can hope to avoid that scenario out of pocket.

I was editing my previous post still, fyi.

But that's a valid point you're bringing and I didn't know that. Perhaps it's best that I wont wait too long indeed.

 

[SubaruRaptor]

I was editing my previous post still, fyi.

But that's a valid point you're bringing and I didn't know that. Perhaps it's best that I wont wait too long indeed.

There are a lot of videos about the sound on here. If you do some searching you can compare. Its very obvious when it occurs as its a very loud clacking for 1-2 seconds on a cold start (initially) and then normal.

At the end of the day its your truck, just trying to help, Im just some rando on the internet lol.

 

[DanTheMan]

So, hear me out on this one.

I had an appointment today for my second service at 30k kms or 18.6k miles. I think 20k kms is to long and I need to add oil when nearing the 15k so yeah. But regardless of that.

Previous Friday I absentmindedly started my car, not hot but definitely not cold either, and heard a rather loud rattle for like 1 or 2 seconds. It's always a bit noisy on startup but this stood out to me. But being absent minded I was doubting myself. I did mention it via mail to the dealer so they could check it out, but more like I had some proof I've mentioned it before my warranty expires next july. It didn't worry me too much actually.

Guess what, the service tech started my car after being parked for 6 hours and heard it too. So the dealer was like yeah okay, we're going to replace your cam phasers within warranty but it's an engine out job and your car will need to stay at least 3 days. Uuhm, that's not what I was expecting I guess and still not 100% sure I really have an issue with them. They only have a few RR's running and I was the first one to mention the cam phasers issue to them and even provided them the SSM.

So I might as well steered the whole situation into this, but I would be a fool to not let them change them before my warranty expires, right? The service manager didn't know if Ford has already improved the parts, so that's why I said I would rather wait it out a bit longer, 1) to get to a higher mileage before they God forbid need to be replaced a second time and 2) so Ford máybe produces an upgraded version in the meantime. Which they totally understood. I'm also not keen on them removing my engine. It's a rather small dealer with 1 senior tech who would do this job and I'm not 100% confident It'll ever be like from the factory again.

What's your take on this guys? And also, was there a trick to build oil pressure before starting the engine?

Thanks for sharing. Mine has a bit of a short grind noise on cold start ups also. Could you please post a short video of what yours sounds like?

 

[BrrRaptor]

Seems funny to me you sort of think you heard it once, mentioned it to the Dealer and walla they hear it to and want to change it. Don't forget the Dealer gets paid to do this work. If the Dealer is hurting for money it's a no brainer for them to add this work.
I've had Dealers call me up and say hey there is other stuff wrong with your car and it's covered under warranty and we will go ahead and fix it now while it's here.
I show up to pick it up and it's a 5k addition to the bill. They had to drop the entire front end to change the oil pan leak. hmm, wasn't leaking before I took it in.
Don't think they don't take advantage of warranty covered vehicles cuz they do.

 

[Jason B]

I would be worried that they deny warranty work after a couple of years as you were told they needed replacement but drove the truck as is anyway.

 

[beaudointl]

So, hear me out on this one.

I had an appointment today for my second service at 30k kms or 18.6k miles. I think 20k kms is to long and I need to add oil when nearing the 15k so yeah. But regardless of that.

Previous Friday I absentmindedly started my car, not hot but definitely not cold either, and heard a rather loud rattle for like 1 or 2 seconds. It's always a bit noisy on startup but this stood out to me. But being absent minded I was doubting myself. I did mention it via mail to the dealer so they could check it out, but more like I had some proof I've mentioned it before my warranty expires next july. It didn't worry me too much actually.

Guess what, the service tech started my car after being parked for 6 hours and heard it too. So the dealer was like yeah okay, we're going to replace your cam phasers within warranty but it's an engine out job and your car will need to stay at least 3 days. Uuhm, that's not what I was expecting I guess and still not 100% sure I really have an issue with them. They only have a few RR's running and I was the first one to mention the cam phasers issue to them and even provided them the SSM.

So I might as well steered the whole situation into this, but I would be a fool to not let them change them before my warranty expires, right? The service manager didn't know if Ford has already improved the parts, so that's why I said I would rather wait it out a bit longer, 1) to get to a higher mileage before they God forbid need to be replaced a second time and 2) so Ford máybe produces an upgraded version in the meantime. Which they totally understood. I'm also not keen on them removing my engine. It's a rather small dealer with 1 senior tech who would do this job and I'm not 100% confident It'll ever be like from the factory again.

What's your take on this guys? And also, was there a trick to build oil pressure before starting the engine?

The part number will reflect any change in the design. They might be able to look up the replacement part number and see if there is an effectivity date for it. Shortening your oil change interval may help preserve your new phasers. What motor do you have?

 

[nikhsub1]

So my gen 2 raptor (2018) had bad phasers and there are 100% new part numbers for those phasers. I'd be really surprised at this point if there weren't redesigned phasers for the 3L. Ford will never learn apparently since this issue has been happening for a decade or more now.

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