Told by dealer six months to one year wait ALL Ranger models.

[Wags]

Then you are at the mercy of Musk playing ping pong with his pricing every other week. Surely you have seen the stories of people being pissed off after paying going rate for a Tesla and then Musk cuts prices 2 weeks later with no warning? Isn’t that exactly what you described with a guy and a girl buying the same car from the same dealer- but 1 gets charged more? The industry answer to this is MSRP, so every person starts out with a level playing field.

The other concern I mentioned is the ordering on line part: there’s a significant group of people who simply don’t have ability to do that for 1 reason or another and no legacy company is going to alienate them (many are elderly or retired) and drive away sales for clients who typically have the means, but maybe not the know how.

It's not the same thing but I'm not here to argue or go back and forth. Somethings are just easier to discuss in person. I gave my opinion on it and I stand by it You have your opinion and you disagree and thats fine.

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[Snkrjeff020]

There's always people that are going to have more money than you or willing to go into more debt than you. It's not unreasonable for people to pay extra for a specialty vehicle. You can only control your own financial situation.

 

[SGT Ranger]

I wonder if Lamborghini people act the same way when a limited release unit comes out. lol.

 

[rwolfcastle]

I'm paying $5000 ADM as well. However I also made sure to set that as my maximum allowed. I've also used the concept of critical thinking to realize by the time that Ranger raptors are more readily available by the time that occurs people will actually probably be paying the same amount that I'm paying now but with no ADM.

I've been harping on it a while now but between annual standard price increases and availability everyone who thinks they are going to get one at MSRP on a retail order they're going to have their bubbles popped after they get tired of waiting outside of a few anecdotally moon alignment situations. it's basically going to boil down a pure dumb luck and nothing to do with personal ability to negotiate.

If you take notice the majority of the stories where people are getting allocation One stock orders for MSRP it's because they have been a long-term customer of the dealership. They basically traded a $5,000 ADM by means of other investment.

These people need to understand it is not going to happen.

A few of you keep harping on this like MSRP is impossible but my dealer only charges MSRP, including the Raptors. I didn't have to do any slick negotiating, it's just what they do. This will also be the first vehicle I buy from them but if I ever buy another Ford, that's where I'll be going.

As far as annual price increase, I've said this before but that's still MSRP. If Ford ends up charging more and raises MSRP, that's what I'll pay and not a dime more.

I'll also add that I don't care if anyone else pays ADM. It's your choice and I understand your reason for doing it. I don't think you're stupid for doing it, I just don't want to pay it myself. I also think it's silly when anyone paying ADM acts like nobody will ever find one at MSRP. Like I said a bunch before, there are quite a few dealers charging MSRP, they just take work to find. I probably talked to 80 dealers and found maybe 10 that don't charge ADM.

 

[SGT Ranger]

A few of you keep harping on this like MSRP is impossible but my dealer only charges MSRP, including the Raptors. I didn't have to do any slick negotiating, it's just what they do. This will also be the first vehicle I buy from them but if I ever buy another Ford, that's where I'll be going.

As far as annual price increase, I've said this before but that's still MSRP. If Ford ends up charging more and raises MSRP, that's what I'll pay and not a dime more.

I'll also add that I don't care if anyone else pays ADM. It's your choice and I understand your reason for doing it. I don't think you're stupid for doing it, I just don't want to pay it myself. I also think it's silly when anyone paying ADM acts like nobody will ever find one at MSRP. Like I said a bunch before, there are quite a few dealers charging MSRP, they just take work to find. I probably talked to 80 dealers and found maybe 10 that don't charge ADM.

Its been addressed numerous times and no one has said it cannot be done, what is being said is the few anecdotal experiences out there are not the norm.

Congrats, you found a dealer you have no past relationship and will still sell at MSRP, thus the "boils down to pure dumb luck" comment. You saved $5,000 more than me, my hats off to you.

Personally, Ive spent more on crap that has devalued to next to nothing. Anyone who fabricates here knows exactly what I mean. You design something, then you do another revision, then another, then another, in an almost infinite loop. Don't get me started on vehicle mods. lol

I'm not even sure anything anyone has said was directed at you, but more towards the people who get triggered by ADM and then ramble on like these things will be available at MSRP widespread. No what is going to happen is a bunch of anecdotal stories will float around and people with grasp at straws to this.

As far as paying $5,000+ down the line once annual increases go up and its baked into the MSRP, at that point its just an argument of splitting hairs. "Well its still MSRP" - that is not the point. The point was just short-sighted people bitching about $5,000 ADM don't realize if they wait and I mean trully wait it out, they will more than likely being paying the same total as those who get to enjoy the trucks years in advance. Its an argument based in "nothingburger" land.

 

[jrRaptor]

You must not recognize that used cars are actually a bigger profit maker for dealers than new car sales? Or that all buyers are not young and/or tech-savvy enough to handle a complex purchase like this on-line? Even IF manufacturers moved exclusively to on-line new car ordering (seems unworkable IMO) they won't be shipping individual units to every single buyer at home. Would not be cost effective and there simply isn't a big enough network of auto transport trucks + drivers to ever make this feasible. You would still go receive your new Ford, GM, Kia at a dealership of some type so you can inspect in person and finalize transaction. They would also still be your Consumer facing contact point for warranty work and repairs and OEM parts.

Carmax and other nationwide auto groups and independent franchises selling used are not going away, no matter how much wishful thinking is posted on the internet about this. Not ALL change is progress or even good for the bulk of consumers, especially when we are talking about the 2nd largest purchase most people will make in their lifetimes. If it aint broke, don't fix it

But it IS broke and people are conditioned to accept it. The dealership model is outdated and unnecessary. The only thing that has kept it in place is the lobbying - call it what it really is, crying and buying senators with money. If it weren't for that we WOULD have something different in place by now.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it." That's like saying, why improve it if it's ok and works? C'mon now. You don't make progress unless you try new things - some work, some don't. We haven't tried anything else because of laws in place due to dealerships not wanting to lose that chunk of money; doesn't matter how small that chunk is compared to warranty work or used car sales, that's money lost from their pockets. You'd lobby too if you had big money to spend and support your cause to keep more money. It's a game and everyone is a player, we're just the pawns.

I don't claim to have a solution, it's above me, but I do know we could and deserve better.

 

[goalieThreeOne]

But it IS broke and people are conditioned to accept it. The dealership model is outdated and unnecessary. The only thing that has kept it in place is the lobbying - call it what it really is, crying and buying senators with money. If it weren't for that we WOULD have something different in place by now.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it." That's like saying, why improve it if it's ok and works? C'mon now. You don't make progress unless you try new things - some work, some don't. We haven't tried anything else because of laws in place due to dealerships not wanting to lose that chunk of money; doesn't matter how small that chunk is compared to warranty work or used car sales, that's money lost from their pockets. You'd lobby too if you had big money to spend and support your cause to keep more money. It's a game and everyone is a player, we're just the pawns.

I don't claim to have a solution, it's above me, but I do know we could and deserve better.

Solution is easy. Enforce the MSRP. Flat rate pricing, and fixed margin for the dealer. This will have unintended consequences though.

 

[Ranger#5?]

But it IS broke and people are conditioned to accept it. The dealership model is outdated and unnecessary. The only thing that has kept it in place is the lobbying - call it what it really is, crying and buying senators with money. If it weren't for that we WOULD have something different in place by now.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it." That's like saying, why improve it if it's ok and works? C'mon now. You don't make progress unless you try new things - some work, some don't. We haven't tried anything else because of laws in place due to dealerships not wanting to lose that chunk of money; doesn't matter how small that chunk is compared to warranty work or used car sales, that's money lost from their pockets. You'd lobby too if you had big money to spend and support your cause to keep more money. It's a game and everyone is a player, we're just the pawns.

I don't claim to have a solution, it's above me, but I do know we could and deserve better.

Going all the way back to Henry Ford creating the auto assembly lines and mass production of vehicles- you had the direct to consumer model and very few choices on builds ordering from a catalog. When people asked for more options, he said “you can have any color you like- as long as it’s Black”.

It wasn’t until the late 1950s until a Guy named Cal Worthington saw buyers need’s not being addressed and created the showroom model so people could actually see and test before ordering. THAT was actual progress and he got rich doing it.

To me and many others in older generations that model still works and could benefit from a little tweaking around the edges from time to time, but there’s no good reason to throw out the baby with the bath water here.

IMO, younger generations are too fixated on reimagining things they didn’t grow up with and won’t take the time to understand how we got where we are. Don’t seem to understand there are negative consequences for many of us making drastic changes in the name “progress” and have already moved on to other trendy things ignoring the fallout when changes didn’t make things better for everyone as promised.

We seem to be going backwards here to the Henry Ford era with ordering vehicles with fewer options available and lengthy delays with no accountability for screw ups. Sales people and independent dealerships are an easy target to rage against the cause of all problems with unsatisfactory transaction experiences, but to me that is misplaced and the “solution” of direct ordering moves us backwards instead of fixing anything.

YMMV

 

[SGT Ranger]

Going all the way back to Henry Ford creating the auto assembly lines and mass production of vehicles- you had the direct to consumer model and very few choices on builds ordering from a catalog. When people asked for more options, he said “you can have any color you like- as long as it’s Black”.

It wasn’t until the late 1950s until a Guy named Cal Worthington saw buyers need’s not being addressed and created the showroom model so people could actually see and test before ordering. THAT was actual progress and he got rich doing it.

To me and many others in older generations that model still works and could benefit from a little tweaking around the edges from time to time, but there’s no good reason to throw out the baby with the bath water here.

IMO, younger generations are too fixated on reimagining things they didn’t grow up with and won’t take the time to understand how we got where we are. Don’t seem to understand there are negative consequences for many of us making drastic changes in the name “progress” and have already moved on to other trendy things ignoring the fallout when changes didn’t make things better for everyone as promised.

We seem to be going backwards here to the Henry Ford era with ordering vehicles with fewer options available and lengthy delays with no accountability for screw ups. Sales people and independent dealerships are an easy target to rage against the cause of all problems with unsatisfactory transaction experiences, but to me that is misplaced and the “solution” of direct ordering moves us backwards instead of fixing anything.

YMMV

I agree with both sides. The current trend shows the nasty side of spectrum when it comes to dealers. On the other end of the spectrum is the unknown for basically taking an oak tree that has has its roots embedded for nearly 100 years. Rip it out and who knows what is going to come up with all that soil.

The only idea I could come up with is an expensive one and for Ford directly. They start opening up their own dealerships. As in corporate owned retail stores no different than say, Best Buy or Walmart.

Then the consumer has a choice of the type of dealership to use. If it turns out a directly run Ford dealership is the better model, classic dealerships can either merge and get on board or go out of business cause no one wants to deal with them.

I don't see this ever happening because it would require an epic amount of spending on Ford's end.

I do know I have a huge disdain for "too big to fail". There are some other car brands that should not exist today because of their terrible decision making that the tax payers bailed out.

"It would hurt us all for this business to go down, so we are just going to save them, so we can hurt you in other ways so they can keep the lights on. Trust us. We know what is good for you."

Good grief.

 

[Ranger#5?]

I agree with both sides. The current trend shows the nasty side of spectrum when it comes to dealers. On the other end of the spectrum is the unknown for basically taking an oak tree that has has its roots embedded for nearly 100 years. Rip it out and who knows what is going to come up with all that soil.

The only idea I could come up with is an expensive one and for Ford directly. They start opening up their own dealerships. As in corporate owned retail stores no different than say, Best Buy or Walmart.

Then the consumer has a choice of the type of dealership to use. If it turns out a directly run Ford dealership is the better model, classic dealerships can either merge and get on board or go out of business cause no one wants to deal with them.

I don't see this ever happening because it would require an epic amount of spending on Ford's end.

I do know I have a huge disdain for "too big to fail". There are some other car brands that should not exist today because of their terrible decision making that the tax payers bailed out.

"It would hurt us all for this business to go down, so we are just going to save them, so we can hurt you in other ways so they can keep the lights on. Trust us. We know what is good for you."

Good grief.

100%. Anyone that follows Ford the company knows of their continuing money problems. They actually just announced another round of layoffs coming yesterday. 3000 get axed in this next round. Also, they revealed HUGE income losses on the E division of the Corporation again. It's going to be years before that business unit is projected to be profitable.

More food for thought: It was interesting that about 1/3rd of US Ford franchises chose NOT to spend the $ to invest in becoming a Ford E retailer, so there seems to be some doubt from current franchisees about ROI if they march right into the unknown there. Another thing people maybe overlook is that Ford doesn't WANT to handle the extra cost and complexity of E2E vehicle transactions or any other diversions that would siphon $ from the core business of manufacturing the vehicles, then washing their hands of each unit (and getting paid for it) when the dealer takes possession. It's a symbiotic, (or maybe incestuous) relationship the company has with their independent Franchisees sharing the load pre-production after receiving the finished vehicles and completing the actual sales process to earn their profit for their part.

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