Driver data privacy

[T-Rev]

I think I saw where someone had opted out. Had a software update automatically changed, I maybe wrong on this.

I had that experience. When I originally got my truck (early build) there was a specific option in the menu that mentioned sharing with insurance providers. I disabled it. I noticed several weeks later that the menu options had changed (no longer specifically mentioned insurance providers) and things I had disabled like sharing were now enabled. I have since turned off automatic updates and the sharing settings have remained in a disabled state.

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[nowayjose]

Why go through the length of doing that though? What are you gaining? I assume you use major providers that already have this info, especially google or waze or apple that have your driving habits already.

I understand the want to control your data, but to what ends do you think your accomplishing beyond just denying Ford the data from a 1st party source?

Also your note, its the internet, no one cares, people are gonna reply.

No, I don't use google, waze, apple, etc.

You say you understand what it is I'm trying to do and possibly why, but then you come at me with some false assumption about what services I use and then exemplify the reductive nihilism I previously mentioned. What is it, exactly, that you're attempting to prove here?

 

[Jason B]

Does Ford spy on me? Yes
Do several web sites spy on me on the net? Yes
Does Google spy on me? Yes
Do I care? NO!

 

[SubaruRaptor]

No, I don't use google, waze, apple, etc.

You say you understand what it is I'm trying to do and possibly why, but then you come at me with some false assumption about what services I use and then exemplify the reductive nihilism I previously mentioned. What is it, exactly, that you're attempting to prove here?

What do you use for navigation? You use a computer, you have a phone, all of these things are tracking you. I understand a decision to prevent data tracking, but the issue is, you as a user already have a profile built for you on the internet that can be purchased at will by almost any company. Whats the point of stopping Ford? Does all of this suck, yes, but people who complain about data privacy then use any mainstream browser without ad block, a phone, a credit card, or basically anything else in the world are missing the point.

 

[BigMeatsBronco]

1. That link doesn't work

2. That article doesn't say what you're claiming. It doesn't mention pictures, files, emails or browsing history anywhere. It says "call logs and text messages", which is obvious if you're using the connected system -- because the system has to access that data to handle incoming/outgoing calls and incoming/outgoing text messages via the infotainment. This has been standard practice in basically every new car for over a decade by now.

Every app you download on your phone is doing the same thing. At least the ford infotainment system is offering you a service (hands-free communication while operating a vehicle) that requires

fixed...https://fordauthority.com/2023/10/ford-privacy-lawsuit-dismissed-in-washington-state/


other articles divulge far more information into this subject, but you can disagree if you don't like the truth or want to stick your head in the sand, go ahead.

this article has less information than the original, because ford edited it, of course...

 

[nowayjose]

What do you use for navigation? You use a computer, you have a phone, all of these things are tracking you. I understand a decision to prevent data tracking, but the issue is, you as a user already have a profile built for you on the internet that can be purchased at will by almost any company. Whats the point of stopping Ford? Does all of this suck, yes, but people who complain about data privacy then use any mainstream browser without ad block, a phone, a credit card, or basically anything else in the world are missing the point.

Once again, I'm encountering some erroneous assumptions here.

There are quite a few mitigations for privacy and data sharing concerns.

A few basic examples would be: using something like OSM for nav if routes can't be pre-planned, having purposefully limited mobile devices running something like lineageos or grapheneos, running security hardened and privacy configured operating systems on computers, using vpns and other forms of network isolation, and opting out of data collection from services and when patronizing businesses whenever possible.

While I see that the comment wasn't directed at me specifically, I will assert that am not complaining about data privacy in the slightest. I, along with a growing number of others have a personal interest in not feeding these first, second, and third party data brokers. Obviously, the logic and reasoning varies as it will within a complex cohort, but in the end its our choice and it harms nobody. Reminder also that nothing is perfect in this world so this take of 'if I can't have total data privacy, then nothing about it matters at all anymore' seems a bit self defeating. Some of us care about things others don't.

What I'm not understanding with these tired conversations that I've seen multiple times on various forums is this: Why is there an inherent need to step in and try to diminish, disparage, and otherwise shut down any conversation about this topic?

For example, when I see a thread about someone modifying their vehicle in some way that I am not interested in and maybe even think its a bit ridiculous to go to the trouble, I don't feel the need to clutter up the thread with nonsense responses attempting to tell someone how they are somehow inferior, unintelligent, or otherwise foolish to do whatever it is they're doing. In most instances, those responses aren't well received and rightfully so.

 

[Wayfaring Ranger]

fixed...https://fordauthority.com/2023/10/ford-privacy-lawsuit-dismissed-in-washington-state/


other articles divulge far more information into this subject, but you can disagree if you don't like the truth or want to stick your head in the sand, go ahead.

this article has less information than the original, because ford edited it, of course...

okay so can you share the other articles that prove ford are also capturing emails, browsing history, photos and files? otherwise there's no reason to believe this is actually happening and it's just fearmongering.

software data privacy is something related to my degree and day job so i generally try keep up with articles about what's going on and i've never seen any of that mentioned.

 

[BigMeatsBronco]

okay so can you share the other articles that prove ford are also capturing emails, browsing history, photos and files? otherwise there's no reason to believe this is actually happening and it's just fearmongering.

software data privacy is something related to my degree and day job so i generally try keep up with articles about what's going on and i've never seen any of that mentioned.

Nope, actually I have already on other threads and theve been deleted...you can use the Google search bar if your actually curious. or PM me.

 

[T-Rev]

What do you use for navigation? You use a computer, you have a phone, all of these things are tracking you. I understand a decision to prevent data tracking, but the issue is, you as a user already have a profile built for you on the internet that can be purchased at will by almost any company. Whats the point of stopping Ford? Does all of this suck, yes, but people who complain about data privacy then use any mainstream browser without ad block, a phone, a credit card, or basically anything else in the world are missing the point.

When it is detailed data that can be directly tied to you and bought by your insurance company to increase your rates or even cancel your insurance, it's certainly much different then data being used to try and sell you something....that's the point and you are the one missing it.

 

[Wayfaring Ranger]

Nope, actually I have already on other threads and theve been deleted...you can use the Google search bar if your actually curious. or PM me.

I did google it and found nothing after looking through multiple pages of results and using different search terms. None of the old threads here have been deleted, you just never posted what you're claiming.

If you have an actual source, just post it so people are aware it's actually happening. If you don't have an article, just admit you're wrong and there's no evidence ford is saving "emails, photos, browsing history and files".

software data privacy is related to my day job. i follow this stuff pretty closely, especially when it concerns the cars i've owned since 2017 and i've never seen anything like what you're saying is happening.

"just google it" is what people say when they realize they can't back up what they are saying.

 

[stemplar]

<snip>
If you have an actual source, just post it so people are aware it's actually happening. If you don't have an article, just admit you're wrong and there's no evidence ford is saving "emails, photos, browsing history and files".

software data privacy is related to my day job. i follow this stuff pretty closely, especially when it concerns the cars i've owned since 2017 and i've never seen anything like what you're saying is happening.

"just google it" is what people say when they realize they can't back up what they are saying.

A quote from the source that was shared, “ which they discovered after the two exchanged private messages and calls that were unlawfully recorded from their cell phones and then permanently stored in their vehicles, ”

I guess “follow this stuff pretty closely” doesn’t include reading the info given? But tell us again how this is your job.

 

[BigMeatsBronco]

I did google it and found nothing after looking through multiple pages of results and using different search terms. None of the old threads here have been deleted, you just never posted what you're claiming.

If you have an actual source, just post it so people are aware it's actually happening. If you don't have an article, just admit you're wrong and there's no evidence ford is saving "emails, photos, browsing history and files".

software data privacy is related to my day job. i follow this stuff pretty closely, especially when it concerns the cars i've owned since 2017 and i've never seen anything like what you're saying is happening.

"just google it" is what people say when they realize they can't back up what they are saying.

well a quick search this comes up....


https://theintercept.com/2021/05/03/car-surveillance-berla-msab-cbp/



to me ,your ignorance about this shows you know nothing and should likely be fired if this is your line of work...

this article says " emails , pictures" and everything else you so certainly just denied....🫡

https://www.diamondvalleyfcu.org/blog/syncing-your-phone-your-car-can-put-you-risk

here's a picture from an email from the administrator...yes some things do get erased...especially when they/we break the rules.



I suppose you think this is all hogwash???

 

[Wayfaring Ranger]

A quote from the source that was shared, “ which they discovered after the two exchanged private messages and calls that were unlawfully recorded from their cell phones and then permanently stored in their vehicles, ”

I guess “follow this stuff pretty closely” doesn’t include reading the info given? But tell us again how this is your job.

i already said the car knows that info. did you even read the thread before you replied? i said as much right here: https://www.ranger6g.com/forum/threads/driver-data-privacy.12200/#post-189557

the guy i'm talking to said it collects "photos, browsing history, files and emails". nothing that you've said proves that.

next time read the thread before you try to make a "gotcha" that just proves you didn't read the conversation.

 

[Wayfaring Ranger]

well a quick search this comes up....


https://theintercept.com/2021/05/03/car-surveillance-berla-msab-cbp/



to me ,your ignorance about this shows you know nothing and should likely be fired if this is your line of work...

this article says " emails , pictures" and everything else you so certainly just denied....🫡

https://www.diamondvalleyfcu.org/blog/syncing-your-phone-your-car-can-put-you-risk

the first link never says ford is collecting that information. ford is mentioned once in that intercept article and here's the quote:

" We had a Ford Explorer … we pulled the system out, and we recovered 70 phones that had been connected to it. All of their call logs, their contacts and their SMS history, as well as their music preferences, songs that were on their device "

so like i said earlier...yeah it's collecting data related to the functionality of the infotainment. if you want the infotainment to handle hands-free calls and texts, it's going to store the info that it needs to accomplish that task(contact lists, call logs, sms logs). if you want to play music from your phone, it's going to store that data.

the article does not say anywhere that ford is collecting "photos, files, browsing history and emails". it only says that some cars are collecting that much information with no specifics on which car makers are doing so.

the second article doesn't mention ford at all.

and no, i never said it was "hogwash". i'm asking for a specific source that ford is the car manufacturer that is proven to be collecting this stuff. you still haven't provided that source. all you've provided is that there exists some car maker that is doing this stuff.

 

[BigMeatsBronco]

the first link never says ford is collecting that information. ford is mentioned once in that intercept article and here's the quote:

" We had a Ford Explorer … we pulled the system out, and we recovered 70 phones that had been connected to it. All of their call logs, their contacts and their SMS history, as well as their music preferences, songs that were on their device "

so like i said earlier...yeah it's collecting data related to the functionality of the infotainment. if you want the infotainment to handle hands-free calls and texts, it's going to store the info that it needs to accomplish that task(contact lists, call logs, sms logs). if you want to play music from your phone, it's going to store that data.

the article does not say anywhere that ford is collecting "photos, files, browsing history and emails". it only says that some cars are collecting that much information with no specifics on which car makers are doing so.

the second article doesn't mention ford at all.

and no, i never said it was "hogwash". i'm asking for a specific source that ford is the car manufacturer that is proven to be collecting this stuff. you still haven't provided that source. all you've provided is that there exists some car maker that is doing this stuff.

the first link never says ford is collecting that information. ford is mentioned once in that intercept article and here's the quote:

" We had a Ford Explorer … we pulled the system out, and we recovered 70 phones that had been connected to it. All of their call logs, their contacts and their SMS history, as well as their music preferences, songs that were on their device "

so like i said earlier...yeah it's collecting data related to the functionality of the infotainment. if you want the infotainment to handle hands-free calls and texts, it's going to store the info that it needs to accomplish that task(contact lists, call logs, sms logs). if you want to play music from your phone, it's going to store that data.

the article does not say anywhere that ford is collecting "photos, files, browsing history and emails". it only says that some cars are collecting that much information with no specifics on which car makers are doing so.

the second article doesn't mention ford at all.

and no, i never said it was "hogwash". i'm asking for a specific source that ford is the car manufacturer that is proven to be collecting this stuff. you still haven't provided that source. all you've provided is that there exists some car maker that is doing this stuff.

ok so which car makers do YOU think it's is, must be Tesla... or Rivian? ROFL there ALL doing the same thing, because they all use the same or similar android/carplay permissions...Which of the automakers is the most law abiding?

here they tested a few vehicles and listed results ... also, don't forget there is a difference between what data is stored on the vehicles computers, and what data is sent to the manufacturer over the air. this is clearly spelled out in the original lawsuit I mentioned.

https://www.wired.com/story/car-data-privacy-toyota-honda-ford/

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