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SGT Ranger

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Forget about. We agree to disagree, never had an entitled bone in my body though.

It's just a truck.

Have a good evening.

Good choice.

To answer what you were getting at; I am paying an ADM on my raptor. No 10% discount.

If you understand economics, you will understand that price gouging, even and especially in emergency situations actually saves lives. If prices don't reflect the actual state of emergency (ie. no fuel available) then you'll have too many people taking fuel that don't actually need it leaving none for those who do.

Further, the high prices send a signal to other people close by that they can make money by bringing in extra fuel from out of state. Eventually, the market floods with the fuel supply needed and prices drop back down giving everyone what they need.

When government steps in and makes price gouging illegal, then there is no fuel available for anyone and no incentive for anyone nearby to bring it in. This is how economics work and as well meaning as it may seem, policies that hinder freedom end up hurting the very people they are supposed to help.

There's your economics lesson for today.
Yes, it is generally a very bad idea for government to have their hands in anything sanctioning prices on products - 99% of time it never ends well. However, that 1% will generally fall into the scope of reasonable person doctrine.
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G L Rockwell

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If you understand economics, you will understand that price gouging, even and especially in emergency situations actually saves lives. If prices don't reflect the actual state of emergency (ie. no fuel available) then you'll have too many people taking fuel that don't actually need it leaving none for those who do.

Further, the high prices send a signal to other people close by that they can make money by bringing in extra fuel from out of state. Eventually, the market floods with the fuel supply needed and prices drop back down giving everyone what they need.

When government steps in and makes price gouging illegal, then there is no fuel available for anyone and no incentive for anyone nearby to bring it in. This is how economics work and as well meaning as it may seem, policies that hinder freedom end up hurting the very people they are supposed to help.

There's your economics lesson for today.
No offense but, I disagree with that theory completely, not to spite you though.

Real world, in that situation it doesn't matter the price. People pay any price and it's gone regardless.
 

Floyd

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If you understand economics, you will understand that price gouging, even and especially in emergency situations actually saves lives. If prices don't reflect the actual state of emergency (ie. no fuel available) then you'll have too many people taking fuel that don't actually need it leaving none for those who do.

Further, the high prices send a signal to other people close by that they can make money by bringing in extra fuel from out of state. Eventually, the market floods with the fuel supply needed and prices drop back down giving everyone what they need.

When government steps in and makes price gouging illegal, then there is no fuel available for anyone and no incentive for anyone nearby to bring it in. This is how economics work and as well meaning as it may seem, policies that hinder freedom end up hurting the very people they are supposed to help.

There's your economics lesson for today.
With the used car market what it now is and the fact that most new car buyers already own a serviceable vehicle, there is no real need for regulation to prevent gouging.
First of all the gougers are already active robbers in violation of their contracts with Ford.
In most cases they are selling a vehicle which is still owned by Ford.

Secondly, buyers need to distinguish between "needs" and "wants".
Almost nobody "needs" any of the vehicles which are the subject of gouging.
The answer is simply not to participate.
If you really want a Ranger Raptor wait a little while and buy one freshly repossessed from someone impetuous enough to allow themselves to be gouged, only to find the cost too onerous.
Instant gratification is a costly character flaw..... set your limit before you visit the dealer then stick by it.
Many folks want new toys, few folks need them.

( There's another economics lesson for today)
 
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rwolfcastle

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No offense but, I disagree with that theory completely, not to spite you though.

Real world, in that situation it doesn't matter the price. People pay any price and it's gone regardless.
You can disagree all you want but it's simple supply and demand economics. If people are paying regardless, the price simply isn't high enough. If a single tank of gas was $10k then nobody is going to pay for that if they don't need it. If that tank of gas was life and death, I'd be taking out a loan to purchase that tank for $10k if it saved my family. Soon, the market would flood with cheap gas because word would get out that you can make a ton of money.

On the flip side of that, if I knew that I could spend $80 on 18 gallons of gas (current prices) and then drive that gas 8 hours and sell it for $10k, I would be loading as much local gas as I could to go make some good money my family can live on. This is how the market works whether you agree or not.
 

rwolfcastle

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With the used car market what it now is and the fact that most new car buyers already own a serviceable vehicle, there is no real need for regulation to prevent gouging.
First of all the gougers are already active robbers in violation of their contracts with Ford.
In most cases they are selling a vehicle which is still owned by Ford.

Secondly, buyers need to distinguish between "needs" and "wants".
Almost nobody "needs" any of the vehicles which are the subject of gouging.
The answer is simply not to participate.
If you really want a Ranger Raptor wait a little while and buy one freshly repossessed from someone who allowed themselves to be gouged only to find the cost too onerous.
Instant gratification is a costly character flaw..... set your limit before you visit the dealer then stick by it.
Many folks want new toys, few folks need them.
I agree with this. I'm not against gouging per se, because of reasons I've listed in other posts. I personally refuse to pay a markup and if that ultimately means I don't get one right now, so be it. In my previous examples, I gave life/death situations that still justify "gouging" but having a Raptor is not life or death.
 

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Ranger#5?

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With the used car market what it now is and the fact that most new car buyers already own a serviceable vehicle, there is no real need for regulation to prevent gouging.
First of all the gougers are already active robbers in violation of their contracts with Ford.
In most cases they are selling a vehicle which is still owned by Ford.

Secondly, buyers need to distinguish between "needs" and "wants".

Almost nobody "needs" any of the vehicles which are the subject of gouging.
The answer is simply not to participate.
If you really want a Ranger Raptor wait a little while and buy one freshly repossessed from someone impetuous enough to allow themselves to be gouged, only to find the cost too onerous.
Instant gratification is a costly character flaw..... set your limit before you visit the dealer then stick by it.
Many folks want new toys, few folks need them.

( There's another economics lesson for today)
if you are talking about dealer stock vehicles on lots, incorrect. The dealer has already purchased the vehicle from Ford when they took possession and signed paperwork when vehicle received off transport truck. Same thing with Customer Special Ordered vehicles; as soon as the dealer signs paperwork receiving vehicle off transport truck, the dealer owns it. Dealer is in control of the vehicle until they sell it to another party by executing a valid sales contract.

Carry on with your Pontificating. BLOVIATING
 
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G L Rockwell

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You can disagree all you want but it's simple supply and demand economics. If people are paying regardless, the price simply isn't high enough. If a single tank of gas was $10k then nobody is going to pay for that if they don't need it. If that tank of gas was life and death, I'd be taking out a loan to purchase that tank for $10k if it saved my family. Soon, the market would flood with cheap gas because word would get out that you can make a ton of money.

On the flip side of that, if I knew that I could spend $80 on 18 gallons of gas (current prices) and then drive that gas 8 hours and sell it for $10k, I would be loading as much local gas as I could to go make some good money my family can live on. This is how the market works whether you agree or not.
Morality and ethical standards aside, I agree with you.

I'm just not wired that way and I condone the practice.
 

Floyd

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if you are talking about dealer stock vehicles on lots, incorrect. The dealer has already purchased the vehicle from Ford when they took possession and signed paperwork when vehicle received off transport truck. Same thing with Customer Special Ordered vehicles; as soon as the dealer signs paperwork receiving vehicle off transport truck, the dealer owns it. Dealer is in control of the vehicle until they sell it to another party by executing a valid sales contract.

Carry on with your Pontificating.
As a rule no money changes hands for the first 90 days, so the company carries the vehicle on the lot during that time, and the vehicle is often sold in the interim. Some might see that as a distinction without a difference.... Technically the first "owner" is the retail buyer after a title has been issued. .
The dealers themselves have difficulty with these issues, so I'm hardly qualified to pontificate on them so ...
Carry on with your pedantic pedagoguery Maybe we'll both learn something!:giggle:
 
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Ranger#5?

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As a rule no money changes hands for the first 90 days, so the company carries the vehicle on the lot during that time, and the vehicle is often sold in the interim. Some might see that as a distinction without a difference.... Technically the first "owner" is the retail buyer after a title has been issued. .
The dealers themselves have difficulty with these issues, so I'm hardly qualified to pontificate on them so ...
Carry on with your pedantic pedagoguery Maybe we'll both learn something!:giggle:
There’s no such thing as a 90 day rule you’re suggesting. Maybe you are confusing normal payment terms using “net 30, 60, 90” days agreements between businesses and legal chain of custody handoff stages from Ford to eventual private customers? No such linkage exists here.

Research “Flooring fees” to understand how dealerships use large credit lines to keep vehicles on their lots in interim period between taking legal possession of vehicles off transport trucks and eventually selling to a customer.

If you still don’t get how it all comes together, I’ll fill in the blanks for you later. I’m off to submit my Ranger XL order today 😎
 

Floyd

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There’s no such thing as a 90 day rule you’re suggesting. Maybe you are confusing normal payment terms using “net 30, 60, 90” days agreements between businesses and legal chain of custody handoff stages from Ford to eventual private customers? No such linkage exists here.

Research “Flooring fees” to understand how dealerships use large credit lines to keep vehicles on their lots in interim period between taking legal possession of vehicles off transport trucks and eventually selling to a customer.

If you still don’t get how it all comes together, I’ll fill in the blanks for you later. I’m off to submit my Ranger XL order today 😎
I see you have decided to carry on just as suggested. Well I didn't really mean it.
I was only responding, in kind, to your previous "pontificating" remark. ;)
So ... further elucidation will not be necessary, nor appreciated.
Thank you so much for your efforts to this point.

Here's hoping that your new XL will be as perfect as mine has been and that it will be all you are hoping for and more. IMO you have chosen the best value of all Ranger choices.:like:
 
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Ranger#5?

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I see you have decided to carry on just as suggested. Well I didn't really mean it.
I was only responding, in kind, to your previous "pontificating" remark. ;)
So ... further elucidation will not be necessary, nor appreciated.
Thank you so much for your efforts to this point.

Here's hoping that your new XL will be as perfect as mine has been and that it will be all you are hoping for and more. IMO you have chosen the best value of all Ranger choices.:like:
Good Grief Charlie Brown :facepalm:
 

SGT Ranger

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I'd rather somebody just insult me then insult me and try and be casually complimentarily at the same time.

It is still possible to respect somebody who insults me however it's a lot harder to respect somebody who comes off as a weasel selling snake oil.
 

Floyd

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I'd rather somebody just insult me then insult me and try and be casually complimentarily at the same time.

It is still possible to respect somebody who insults me however it's a lot harder to respect somebody who comes off as a weasel selling snake oil.
Its all good! You should try working with a field crew in a refinery!:LOL:
We're all friends here.:blush:
 

Jason B

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This is probably how reality will play out in a nutshell. The ranger Raptor will become more readily available but I don't foresee that happening for a minimum of 3 years and to be quite honest even after 3 years I don't see dealerships adopting just MSRP across the board anyhow on this trim. There are no problems with f150 Raptor production but I still see them on a lot with a markup.

Yes if you were diligent enough you may be able to find a dealer who's not worried about ADM but I'm talking about in general not anecdotal.

How long is the bronco Raptor been available? I've yet to see one sitting on a lot with my own two eyes.
Another scenario is after a few RR's hit the road, people will realize it isn't as desirable as once thought. Same happened with the Bronco, yet I see more used Broncos on a non-Ford lot than anywhere else.
 

rwolfcastle

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Another scenario is after a few RR's hit the road, people will realize it isn't as desirable as once thought. Same happened with the Bronco, yet I see more used Broncos on a non-Ford lot than anywhere else.
I seriously doubt that would ever happen. I've seen a ton of reviews around the world and auto journos are giving them rave reviews. In AU, there are several auto youtubers that liked them so much, they bought one for themselves. That says a lot. I'm expecting the RR to stomp the competition here and become very sought after.
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