MSRP is a pipe dream…

[RaptorFP]

I paid ADM.

The raptor is worth it.

I value my work.

I bought it from an honest dealer.

So now that I've countered with the exact opposite what was even the point of saying any of what you said.

Good for you, but what are you trying to prove exactly? That you don't mind to pay ADM? Or that you have different views on the same matter? I really can't be bothered about that other than say I'm glad you got your Raptor. See you out on the trails

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[SGT Ranger]

Good for you, but what are you trying to prove exactly? That you don't mind to pay ADM? Or that you have different views on the same matter? I really can't be bothered about that other than say I'm glad you got your Raptor. See you out on the trails

I don't mind people who want to insult those who pay ADM. On the flip side I really dislike people who want to insult those who pay ADM and then obfuscate they are doing it.

So either you're doing it on purpose or you're oblivious on the way you relay your message.

 

[RaptorFP]

I don't mind people who want to insult those who pay ADM. On the flip side I really dislike people who want to insult those who pay ADM and then obfuscate they are doing it.

So either you're doing it on purpose or you're oblivious on the way you relay your message.

Please point where have I insulted people who pay ADM? Have I called them any names? The fact dealerships are scalping customers with ADMs I am not hiding. And if you want to take time and place to dislike random strangers over not wanting to pay ADMs so be it, can't say I'll be losing a day of sleep over it. Can't say I share the same sentiment, we just have differing opinions.

 

[SGT Ranger]

Please point where have I insulted people who pay ADM? Have I called them any names? The fact dealerships are scalping customers with ADMs I am not hiding. And if you want to take time and place to dislike random strangers over not wanting to pay ADMs so be it, can't say I'll be losing a day of sleep over it. Can't say I share the same sentiment, we just have differing opinions.

This is like the age-old idea of trying to convince a drunk they have a drinking problem.

Oh well maybe one day you'll get it.

 

[RaptorFP]

This is like the age-old idea of trying to convince a drunk they have a drinking problem.

Oh well maybe one day you'll get it.

Not too sure where you're going with that, you paid ADM- awesome, whatever makes you happy. I don't agree with dealerships abusing scarcity by charging ADM and decided to find one for MSRP. That's what it boils down to. The fact you're claiming I'm insulting ADM buyers when I haven't even called anyone anything offensive is appalling. Nonetheless, I don't harbor hard feelings, life's too short for it, so enjoy your Raptor!

 

[Ranger#5?]

In my scenario waiting works out in my favor only because I still have another vehicle I'm leasing so I'm fine with that, no rush at all. 6% increase is still less however than $10k or more some dealers are demanding. Finance rates are dependent on many factors- months, downpayment, going through Ford vs going through a credit union. What may not make sense for you may make sense for me or others and vice versa.

Regarding add ons etc. not all dealers do that. Yes, there are some shady ones who will force you into it to buy the vehicle, but not all. At the end of the day it's the individuals choice if they want to pay 10k or 20k extra to the dealership or look around/wait for one at MSRP. I've made my choice.

All valid, no doubt. My most recent buying experience was a new 2022 Maverick. Also my 1st time being required to order instead of buying directly off a lot with lots of choices. Participating on Maverick Truck Club sister site the entire time was a real eye opener and informs a lot of what I contribute here.

My 1 and only local Ford dealer has a standing policy of only selling for MSRP on customer special orders. They also have a transparent policy of a flat fee of $399.00 for all the prep and document fees which is prominently displayed all over the showroom that specifically states “profit” is included in that flat fee. They honored every single promise made up to delivery have earned my continued business when ever it makes sense for me.

The cautionary tales I share are experiences people relayed that were promised exactly what I got, but in the end received less then. Nothing more, nothing less. It’s all good

 

[SGT Ranger]

People tend to ignore the following when looking at historical data for basically any trim, make, model;

1.) Annual MSRP increases

2.) Component Deletes - which the 2019 - 2023 Ford Ranger is a prime example.


In an absolute best case scenario what you can hope for is the last trim/model sold before a revamp will cost the same MSRP as the the debut trim/model - but will have less components.

Example: My 2019 Ford Ranger has hood dampers, a glove box damper, middle bed tie downs, and some other various items. Someone who buys a 2023 Ford Ranger gets none of those. The factory simply removed them. The same goes for a 2019 Lariat owner who got an engine cover, but a 2023 Lariat does not. I believe the 2023 Lariats were even being produced with halogen headlamps and the standard LED headlamps became an option. I don't recall at this very moment.

The MSRP did not go down to reflect any of this, in fact over time it increased.

There is a whole thread on 5G tracking these deletes.

All that to say this;

Even before a generational revamp, those scoffing at those paying $5,000 in ADM (example) now, will eventually get their Raptor a few years down the line, but chances are between annual MSRP increases and now factory deleted components, its all a wash and comes out even. Not only do you give up the thrill of driving the actual product for a few years, you end up paying the same thing in the long run when you do get it.

All for pride. And let us make that clear, people don't pay ADM because of pride, not because of some view on the value of money.

Value of money is not measurable. "Eye of the beholder" being one of those reasons. No, its pride. "I'll be damned if I am going to let some dealer make more than a standard amount of money off me."

Its human nature, no one wants to FEEL like they are taken advantage of.

And that is fine. Well, until you want to project that on others and not "own it" like you are somehow the authority figure on the matter. That is called a logical fallacy.

For full disclosure I've made fun of the Ranger Roush packages on plenty of occasions. A $450 tuner with a 93 performance tune quite literally out performs a $13,000 add-on specialty package. The Raptor is a different ball game. There is no equivalent product on the market in its category as an alternative. Not even other brand of trucks.

In the end I am talking averages, not anecdotal evidence. Someone by this time next year will in fact have a Raptor for MSRP saving themselves $5,000. We all know this, but this is a reflection of perfectly timed events for a single individual buyer.

Looking at historical data on the subject, once one has a better understanding of the totality of the view, the amount of ADM becomes less crucial in decision making within (<--- Keyword!) a certain threshold. The ideals of a $5,000 ADM are most certainly not the same ideals of a $20,000 ADM.

I just wish people would utilize critical thinking more.

 

[G L Rockwell]

People tend to ignore the following when looking at historical data for basically any trim, make, model;

1.) Annual MSRP increases

2.) Component Deletes - which the 2019 - 2023 Ford Ranger is a prime example.


In an absolute best case scenario what you can hope for is the last trim/model sold before a revamp will cost the same MSRP as the the debut trim/model - but will have less components.

Example: My 2019 Ford Ranger has hood dampers, a glove box damper, middle bed tie downs, and some other various items. Someone who buys a 2023 Ford Ranger gets none of those. The factory simply removed them. The same goes for a 2019 Lariat owner who got an engine cover, but a 2023 Lariat does not. I believe the 2023 Lariats were even being produced with halogen headlamps and the standard LED headlamps became an option. I don't recall at this very moment.

The MSRP did not go down to reflect any of this, in fact over time it increased.

There is a whole thread on 5G tracking these deletes.

All that to say this;

Even before a generational revamp, those scoffing at those paying $5,000 in ADM (example) now, will eventually get their Raptor a few years down the line, but chances are between annual MSRP increases and now factory deleted components, its all a wash and comes out even. Not only do you give up the thrill of driving the actual product for a few years, you end up paying the same thing in the long run when you do get it.

All for pride. And let us make that clear, people don't pay ADM because of pride, not because of some view on the value of money.

Value of money is not measurable. "Eye of the beholder" being one of those reasons. No, its pride. "I'll be damned if I am going to let some dealer make more than a standard amount of money off me."

Its human nature, no one wants to FEEL like they are taken advantage of.

And that is fine. Well, until you want to project that on others and not "own it" like you are somehow the authority figure on the matter. That is called a logical fallacy.

For full disclosure I've made fun of the Ranger Roush packages on plenty of occasions. A $450 tuner with a 93 performance tune quite literally out performs a $13,000 add-on specialty package. The Raptor is a different ball game. There is no equivalent product on the market in its category as an alternative. Not even other brand of trucks.

In the end I am talking averages, not anecdotal evidence. Someone by this time next year will in fact have a Raptor for MSRP saving themselves $5,000. We all know this, but this is a reflection of perfectly timed events for a single individual buyer.

Looking at historical data on the subject, once one has a better understanding of the totality of the view, the amount of ADM becomes less crucial in decision making within (<--- Keyword!) a certain threshold. The ideals of a $5,000 ADM are most certainly not the same ideals of a $20,000 ADM.

I just wish people would utilize critical thinking more.

Yeah. 5g was doable for me but, I hate dealers that justify it. I asked wether they condone price gouging on fuel during a hurricane and they said " no, this is different ".

It really isn't any different.

 

[SGT Ranger]

Yeah. 5g was doable for me but, I hate dealers that justify it. I asked wether they condone price gouging on fuel during a hurricane and they said " no, this is different ".

It really isn't any different.

It is in fact quite literally different.

Lack of fuel in a catastrophic event can impact life in dangerous and deadly ways.

Someone asking for $1000 on a luxury microwave with a msrp of $500 does not.

How does this basic concept fly over so many peoples heads?

Take note, even the government will not step in and take legal action against "price gouging" until...

*drum roll*

A catastrophic event occurs that presents a clear and present danger of great bodily harm and/or death.

The fact that people somehow equate a luxury truck to something like fuel in a hurricane is a very troubling thing to see. Its not good. At all.

 

[G L Rockwell]

It is in fact quite literally different.

Lack of fuel in a catastrophic event can impact life in dangerous and deadly ways.

Someone asking for $1000 on a luxury microwave with a msrp of $500 does not.

How does this basic concept fly over so many peoples heads?

Take note, even the government will not step in and take legal action against "price gouging" until...

*drum roll*

A catastrophic event occurs that presents a clear and present danger of great bodily harm and/or death.

The fact that people somehow equate a luxury truck to something like fuel in a hurricane is a very troubling thing to see.

I humbly disagree it's price gouging pure and simple.

" Lack of fuel in a catastrophic event can impact life in dangerous and deadly ways. "

Emergency personnel always have their own private supply. Been through too many to count and they do it for pure profit.

 

[SGT Ranger]

I humbly disagree it's price gouging pure and simple.

" Lack of fuel in a catastrophic event can impact life in dangerous and deadly ways. "

Emergency personnel always have their own private supply. Been through too many to count and they do it for pure profit.

It has nothing to do with someone being emergency personnel or not. I am emergency personnel and I'm telling you that is total bullshit.

Sadly this line of thinking you have set your mind to really shows how deeply ingrained the sense of self entitlement is in our society that you can't even parse the difference between fuel availability for the masses in a catastrophic event and a luxury truck you want to buy.

JFC...

 

[G L Rockwell]

Entitlement ? You get an extra 10% off...............hero ?

 

[SGT Ranger]

Entitlement ? You get an extra 10% off...............hero ?

10% off of what?

 

[G L Rockwell]

Forget about. We agree to disagree, never had an entitled bone in my body though.

It's just a truck.

Have a good evening.

 

[rwolfcastle]

If you understand economics, you will understand that price gouging, even and especially in emergency situations actually saves lives. If prices don't reflect the actual state of emergency (ie. no fuel available) then you'll have too many people taking fuel that don't actually need it leaving none for those who do.

Further, the high prices send a signal to other people close by that they can make money by bringing in extra fuel from out of state. Eventually, the market floods with the fuel supply needed and prices drop back down giving everyone what they need.

When government steps in and makes price gouging illegal, then there is no fuel available for anyone and no incentive for anyone nearby to bring it in. This is how economics work and as well meaning as it may seem, policies that hinder freedom end up hurting the very people they are supposed to help.

There's your economics lesson for today.

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