when i wrote all of these comments i was not referring to PHEVs because they are generally a premium purchase over ICE vehicles and wouldn't appeal to people looking for the cheaper option. plus PHEVs have their own supply constraints across all manufacturers and that's not really a ford problem.
Small cars are more profitable in other countries because those people weren't obsessed with oversized vehicles and they weren't living in the best economy we had seen for decades. So they weren't buying oversized vehicles just like american's weren't buying small cars in 2015-2019.They are still building small cars around the world where it is PROVEN profitable still and I give them benefit of the doubt they can forecast American market better than meKeeping factories and purchasing $ obligated to building vehicles they deemed unprofitable (being competitive for the same $ as other companies is part of profitability) and ties their hands on repurposing existing factory capacity for other upcoming models. You have to remember union contracts are part of this too with guaranteed work for X years at any facility. It is just more expensive to build anything in USA and they are massively investing in building up infrastructure for the Ford E future. They don't have unlimited $ to build anything they want in any market segment and risk a huge fail bringing down the whole company. A lot of this looks easy from the outside, but the b!tch is in the details...
In hindsight, it seems ridiculous. Who could have thought a decade of quantitative easing and $7,000,000,000,000 in deficit spending in the previous three years would've caused inflation
I don't know of a single American "begging for small cheap cars" LOL. Where do you come up with this stuff? American's savings accounts and available spending ability INCREASED during the shutdown do to all the gov't spending and left massive pent-up demand for goods to unleash once economies opened again. IMO, You're just not seeing the big picture here with Ford. Kia, Hyundai, Toyota, Nissan and others in that segment all continue making small cars cheaper with more profit margin than Ford can- that's the competing part. And the forecasting part. There was a time not long ago analysts were predicting possible bankruptcy was near for Ford and go look at their stock price crash for indicators why that was floated. They made a business decision the return on investment simply wasn't there to continue in that segment, but they DID introduce Bronco Sport & Maverick which are home runs and serve the same entry level purpose AND make $.
Are you ordering a non-Raptor? 19 is the lowest priority for retail order. If this is for a Raptor, your dealer is really playing games with you.
19 is default for retail orders... and unless your dealer has a ton of identical orders to yours.. it really doesn't mean anything else.
Gotcha I wasnt really sure but they said they didnt receive a ton of orders. I believe them too after listening Long Mcarthurs order #'s(think he said like 1500). Thank you for the info.
Yeah, I think you'll be good to go. Doesn't seem like there is Maverick/Bronco level of demand, so you'll be in good shape.
I talk to people in the real world and see their frustrations with the current market. Go out and talk to some people who unexpectedly lost their primary mode of transportation in the last year or two (the type of person driving the same hatchback/sedan over the last 10 years). They don't want a crossover. They don't want a truck. They don't want to spend $30k on whatever sedans are left in the USA. They don't want something premium or luxury that will spike their insurance rates. They want a cheap replacement car that will get them from A to B. This is the exact market that the focus & fiesta shined in. It is the market that American's weren't interested in until fascist COVID policies and their consequences made many americans wake up to their dire financials that were never really sustainable in a pre-covid world, but accelerated in a post-covid world.
Yes we all got our gimmies during the shutdown, and now that the chickens have come to roost we are feeling the negatives of acting like money can endlessly be printed and rent & loan payments can be paused forever. Printing money always leads to inflation and when you print as much money as we did during COVID, well....those of us who listened to Dr. Paul knew exactly what was coming and aren't surprised by this outcome.
All of these brands also compete with Ford in markets outside of the US, and the Focus is still listed as the best selling car in the world. (https://www.autoncell.com/detail/news/ford-focus-best-selling-ford-car-in-world)
Right, we're in complete agreement here. My whole point is that Ford was totally right in 2018 when they predicted American's didn't want small cars, and Ford could not have predicted any of what happened. But had they made that gamble and kept the small cars around, it may have lead to a very lucky payoff as the tides seem to be shifting.
Totally agree and i'm just bored + working from home on a late friday afternoon. We are all well within our rights to disagree and it's your right as an American to be wrongWe're obviously talking past each other on this and we can each have our own opinions on the issue at hand. That's how these boards work and it's all good
It’s still impossible to get an F150 Raptor, a Raptor R, the new Mustang is waiting list only except for the EcoBoost trims, wait times on the Hybrids is long, and it’s taking months for many people to get their Explorers (you can’t hardly find an ST, KR, or Plat on the lot)
I’ll offer 1 correction in your recollections. Ford did NOT say Americans didn’t want small cars. They said they can’t compete and be profitable selling the traditional sedans and hatchbacks in their lineup. The Focus and Fiesta platforms were at the end of their life cycles and made no sense to update on limited sales records and fierce competition. They can’t compete on low end with Kia Soul or Niro and similar Hyundai or Nissan or Mitsubishi offerings. Again, they DID fill entry level space with well thought out and executed and priced Mavericks including standard hybrid that initially listed just under $20k. Ford publically stated they were going after Corolla and Civic buyers and surveys show the strategy is working.I talk to people in the real world and see their frustrations with the current market. Go out and talk to some people who unexpectedly lost their primary mode of transportation in the last year or two (the type of person driving the same hatchback/sedan over the last 10 years). They don't want a crossover. They don't want a truck. They don't want to spend $30k on whatever sedans are left in the USA. They don't want something premium or luxury that will spike their insurance rates. They want a cheap replacement car that will get them from A to B. This is the exact market that the focus & fiesta shined in. It is the market that American's weren't interested in until fascist COVID policies and their consequences made many americans wake up to their dire financials that were never really sustainable in a pre-covid world, but accelerated in a post-covid world.
Yes we all got our gimmies during the shutdown, and now that the chickens have come to roost we are feeling the negatives of acting like money can endlessly be printed and rent & loan payments can be paused forever. Printing money always leads to inflation and when you print as much money as we did during COVID, well....those of us who listened to Dr. Paul knew exactly what was coming and aren't surprised by this outcome.
Auto loan delinquencies hit an all time high just a few months ago, even higher than 2008. In what world does that indicate that people will continue to buy large vehicles beyond their means? To most of us this is the canary in the coal mine of what is yet to come, and when you see that canary you don't decide to continue spending beyond your means. You budget, reduce waste and downsize where applicable.
"New cars, once part of the American Dream, now out of reach for many" - https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/05/07/new-car-market-high-interest-rates/
"America Is Finally Buying Sedans And Hatchbacks Over Boring SUVs" - https://carbuzz.com/news/america-is-finally-buying-sedans-and-hatchbacks-over-borings-suvs
All of these brands also compete with Ford in markets outside of the US, and the Focus is still listed as the best selling car in the world. (https://www.autoncell.com/detail/news/ford-focus-best-selling-ford-car-in-world)
If they can compete against each other in every other market except the USA, with nearly the same exact line of vehicles across markets, and still make a profit enough to remain in other markets + outsell the competition, then it doesn't sound like a profit margin issue. It sounds like ford predicted American's didn't want cars and it would be wasteful to fill lots in the USA with them. Which was true in 2018 when they made that decision. But we are 5 years beyond that decision and things seem to be changing direction in this country.
"According to a new industry report from Automotive News, high prices and the desire to be different may have contributed to the sedan's increased popularity among American buyers during the first quarter of 2023, marking the first time in 20 years that SUV popularity didn't grow.
The Automotive News Research & Data Center found that sedan, coupe, convertible, hatchback, sports car, and performance car models represented 21.4% of the 3.6 million new vehicles sold in America during the first quarter of 2023, up from 19.6% in the last quarter of 2022."
Right, we're in complete agreement here. My whole point is that Ford was totally right in 2018 when they predicted American's didn't want small cars, and Ford could not have predicted any of what happened. But had they made that gamble and kept the small cars around, it may have lead to a very lucky payoff as the tides seem to be shifting.
Would ford have gone bankrupt before that? It's possible, although i'm sure our benevolent overlords would have bailed them out with all the other free money printed during the shutdowns. But that's just part of taking a risky gamble.
Totally agree and i'm just bored + working from home on a late friday afternoon. We are all well within our rights to disagree and it's your right as an American to be wrong
You missed one key word there: "When it comes to the best-selling Ford car in the world, the Ford Focus takes the top spot."
In hindsight, it seems ridiculous. Who could have thought a decade of quantitative easing and $7,000,000,000,000 in deficit spending in the previous three years would've caused inflation
Found one that only sells MSRP.
