RR 3.0 Wet Belt Driven Oil Pump - issues in future?

[1996-to-2025]

What gets me is no one complains about the wet belt in the oft desired and lauded Coyote 5.0. The poor ol' 2.7 gets unfairly bashed IMO. I'm not concerned one bit about it.

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[danmoochie]

What gets me is no one complains about the wet belt in the oft desired and lauded Coyote 5.0. The poor ol' 2.7 gets unfairly bashed IMO. I'm not concerned one bit about it.

exactly, I stated this in another post as well, its not an issue.

 

[hand-filer]

What gets me is no one complains about the wet belt in the oft desired and lauded Coyote 5.0. The poor ol' 2.7 gets unfairly bashed IMO. I'm not concerned one bit about it.

With regard to the 5.0 Coyote, mine has the oil pump that is direct driven off the crankshaft. I would much prefer to have it belt driven. The direct oil pumps are the weak link in high performance applications. No such issues with the belt drive system which has been tested in 1,000+ HP applications.
A lot off misinformation out there about wet belts.

 

[ryanO]

What do you guys think of this cheap wet belt and issues in the future? Until 2017 the 3.0 ecoboost oil pump was chain driven. .
This is a big engineering downgrade, and don’t come with things like less friction an emissions, because this is a fail on purpose design. .

Here's my take.
1. Remember thay MOST of the people here and on the internet that are bitching about it have never had an issue and are mostly dramatic
2. If you change your oil regularly and do the recommended maintenance at every interval, you're probably not going to have an issue.
3. I take my Ford's to the local Quick Lane and have had amazing experience. Doing that also creates a traceable history in case anything does go wrong.

Do the maintenance recommended and don't ruin your experience of an amazing truck listening to the naysayer fools on the internet or worrying!

 

[Hoss]

Ohh, my goodness. I’m sure I’m going to lose sleep tonight.

 

[daytoncarter]

Here's my take.
1. Remember thay MOST of the people here and on the internet that are bitching about it have never had an issue and are mostly dramatic
2. If you change your oil regularly and do the recommended maintenance at every interval, you're probably not going to have an issue.
3. I take my Ford's to the local Quick Lane and have had amazing experience. Doing that also creates a traceable history in case anything does go wrong.

Do the maintenance recommended and don't ruin your experience of an amazing truck listening to the naysayer fools on the internet or worrying!

Ryan, I think people are skeptical/traumatized after the cascade of design failures from Ford. The 2.3 in the RS (same engine architecture as the Ranger) was blowing head gaskets before the update. Luckily the Ranger got the benefit of the improved 2.3L. The 1.5L i4 in the Escape was junk, headgaskets. The 1.0 i3 in the Focus/Ecosport was junk - actually wet belt failures happening was why that motor got recalled. The 3.5 Ecoboost cam phasers, intercooler, turbo issues and more.

23S64: EcoSport and Focus (2016-2022) Engine Oil Pump Failure Recall

You've gotta do your research before buying a Ford, that's just the cold hard truth, because they do put out gold and garbage.

 

[ryanO]

Ryan, I think people are skeptical/traumatized after the cascade of design failures from Ford. The 2.3 in the RS (same engine architecture as the Ranger) was blowing head gaskets before the update. Luckily the Ranger got the benefit of the improved 2.3L. The 1.5L i4 in the Escape was junk, headgaskets. The 1.0 i3 in the Focus/Ecosport was junk - actually wet belt failures happening was why that motor got recalled. The 3.5 Ecoboost cam phasers, intercooler, turbo issues and more.

23S64: EcoSport and Focus (2016-2022) Engine Oil Pump Failure Recall

You've gotta do your research before buying a Ford, that's just the cold hard truth, because they do put out gold and garbage.

Ive had multiple 3.5s that went well over 100K with zero issues. Im not saying everything is rainbows and butterflies, but it's not as bad as the internet makes it out to be.
One massive issue with the internet is thay it gives the average person a voice in public when they really shouldn't have one. LOL....
Those are the people that make issues bigger than what they are.

 

[RangerDangerStranger]

The issue is that this is no idiot nor stupid thinker. . This was reengineered to fail and to save money in chain, guide and tensioner, for it to cause issues in medium term. . Replacing the belt is serius job, removing front of engine cover etc. . It limits oil compatibility, and life time of the engine.
I think they should face a class action to start manufacturing chain and tensor to update this engines. .

I wholly and completely agree with this statement. I'd say about 7 years/ 100k miles is where the carnage will start. Only a fool or an idiot....
The 2.3, at least the version up to 2024, has a chain . Only a fool or an idiot....

 

[RangerDangerStranger]

This and weight were the two main reasons for getting the 2.3L MPC. After driving the dinky 4cyl 1000 miles, I can't say I'm wanting for more power.

To be fair, there are 300k and maybe even 500k mile examples of 2.7s in other Fords already. But that's over 3-5 years of hard use, let's see how the belt looks after 10, 15, or 20 years.

Well, my understanding is that the 2.7 originally had a chain, and there is a retrofit kit available from Ford.

 

[Lion77]

I wholly and completely agree with this statement. I'd say about 7 years/ 100k miles is where the carnage will start. Only a fool or an idiot....
The 2.3, at least the version up to 2024, has a chain . Only a fool or an idiot....

And yet my Friend's 21' Explorer ST has 130k+ miles on it, run out to 10k intervals with just MC Blend, he only recently switched to FS. Did UOI's on it periodically and for his uses, it was working just fine. Time will tell but seems to go against the common ideology of "if it's a belt, it must fail".

Belt or chain, each has their application and as materials advance, much more robust belts have been developed. The Oil Pump is a rather low stress part, especially variable geometry pumps and modern belts, as stated above, are a type of Kevlar vs. some of the older designs, and are highly resistant to wear.

Did we all forget that un-coated metals are also highly susceptible to acids? Do you think your cam lobes or cylinder walls won't get pitted from acids? Will a pitted cam lobe last long or will it wear rapidly then fail? What about the iron cylinder walls? The SAME problems that kill steel and iron components will kill a wet belt.

When wet belts first came out, they were problematic, for sure...back in 2007! New technology application, that's usually the case of early gen designs of...anything! But wet belts for oil pumps are quite mature now. If manufactured properly and maintained properly, just like your cam lobes, timing chains and tensioners etc., it will last for the life of the engine.

5.0's also have wet belt now too (this was one was torn down due to a bad valve that caused #6 cylinder compression loss):

Inside your 2021 5.0 at 3500 miles... | F150gen14 -- 2021+ Ford F-150, Tremor, Raptor Forum (14th Gen) | News, Owners, Community, Discussions

 

[daytoncarter]

And yet my Friend's 21' Explorer ST has 130k+ miles on it, run out to 10k intervals with just MC Blend, he only recently switched to FS.

Man I don't know what happened, but running around and trying to convince folks a 4 year old engine is reliable because it hasn't died ain't it.

You got people buying 20 year old 4Runners with 350k laughing about how the old 4.0 is just broken in.

People here defending the wet belt are just advocating against their own interests.

 

[Lion77]

How about GM's 6.2L rod bearing failures due to a machining defect in the oil galleys on the crank? Are oil pump belts that susceptible that very small manufacturing issues cause catastrophic failures? Like anything, it has it's pros and cons. It's not perfect, but I have a feeling it's one of those things people cry wolf over an the vast majority will function without issue for hundreds of thousands of miles and the ones that fail are usually due to major mfg. defect (just like cam phasors, or bad turbo bearings, or bad banjo bolts, or bad head castings that crack etc.) or maintenance issues (i.e., people don't change their oil or use the wrong quality of oil for the application).

My assesment is that this whole belt drive oil pump thing is just like the "V8's good....turbo V6's and Turbo 4's bad" because turbos increase complexity therefore they will fail (thats the simplistic logic behind it)....and yet every Ranger model now is using FI and the bigger majority of gas engines and diesel engines are now FI and we have many Ecoboost engines with hundreds of thousands on the clock without failures.

My father in law as a 2008 2500 Duramax Diesel with 350k miles on it. Turbo. But I thought Turbo's were bad? I thought they would all fail? That same argument has been used over and over, "early gens had issues, so it's a bad idea always no matter what...".

When the Ecoboost V6 first came out, it was a first generation and using GF-5 spec motor oils because....well ASE had no spec. just for turbo engines. Over time more and more companies adopted TGDI designs, direct injection and a slew of other tech to make engines provide the balance of power and economy they do now.

Don't forget the 80's and 90's V8's that got 12-14 mpg and only made 190~220 hp....no joke that's what many American EFI V8 engines made back then. 4 Cylinder engines were making 70~100 hp and got maybe 30 mpg highway from something that was slower than a Prius!

Over time, GF-6 spec was released in late 2018' I believe and was mass use by 2020. It addressed a lot of the shortcomings of GF-5 for TGDI engines, like timing chain wear, LSPI susceptibility and cold cranking viscosity and fuel economy. Now Ford is shipping GF-7A spec oil's (I just used some with my last change of MC FS from Rock Auto).

I think you will get the occasional oil pump failure with wet belts just like you do with timing chain driven oil pumps. Some will be infant mortality due to mfg. or assembly defects; some will be higher mileage due to maintenance issues (lack there of).

Most people are clueless, but did you know that oil pump chains can resonate and and actually shatter the oil pump? Yep, some chains can resonate as they wear, causing oil pump failure, particularly at higher RPM's. Might explain why some EB's or other TGDI randomly suffer major oil starvation despite no sludging or blockages, but somehow see oil starvation (the mystery failures). Wet belts do not have harmonic resonance issues.

Like I said, everything has pros and cons. Belt does not automatically = bad. Time does not automatically mean belt failure. In fact, the primary cause of degredation of Kevalr isn't time, it's UV exposure. Exactly how is an oil pump belt going to be exposed to UV? Acids could also be a possible cause of failure, but again, same issue with metals. I'm not really seeing some massive cause for alarm.

2.7L, 3.0L and 5.0L are all belt drive oil pumps now. There's are legitimate reasons for it and technology for that tech has matured quite a bit. Also, does anyone ever change the wet belts in Honda motocyle or lawnmower engines? They have been using them since the 1990's! Some of those belts are decades old!

Honda GCV wet timing belt | BobIsTheOilGuy

So, where is the age factor there? That's a 15 year old lawnmower engine, it's not going to die by hours, it's going to "die by age"....allegedly. If you read down that thread, one guy has had that same engine from 2004, the post was in 2025....that's 21 years old and the wet belt is still just fine.

I stand by my posts and I'm not going along with the chicken little's. Some will fail for the same reasons any engine can fail, part quality, assembly quality, user error or just good old wear from a lot of use. Some will last 200,300k miles and over 15+ years and the majority will last the service life of the engine.

 

[daytoncarter]

Are oil pump belts that susceptible that very small manufacturing issues cause catastrophic failures?

I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding of the issue here. We aren't talking about manufacturing defects or quality control slips.

The issue is that this belt is, by definition, a consumable wear item. It is made of materials that naturally degrade over time due to heat and friction.

You have to distinguish between 'lifetime' parts and 'service' parts. A metal timing chain is generally engineered to be a 'lifetime of the vehicle' component—it doesn't chemically break down just by sitting there. A belt does. It has a finite shelf life and operational life. The problem isn't that the belt is 'defective'; the problem is treating a temporary, degradable wear item as if it were a permanent lifetime component like a chain.

 

[MasterCylinder]

What do you guys think of this cheap wet belt and issues in the future? Until 2017 the 3.0 ecoboost oil pump was chain driven. .
This is a big engineering downgrade, and don’t come with things like less friction an emissions, because this is a fail on purpose design. .

Your concerns are warranted but stem from old technology and early on experience in materials and design with oil bathed timing belts, oil bathed oil pump belts from all the way back to 2008 and failures. This can stroke an emotional issue with some but if the design was problematic we would see an internet riff with the reports/recalls. We all learn from our mistakes and manufactures pay in recalls to address issues and yes they learn to. In 2021 Ford actually tested the 5.0l coyote oil pump belt all the way up a 1100 hp engine. In hate to burst your bubble but as we the consumer respond to more performance gains/mpg manufactures do to. Longevity in engines is a big concern. Well timing belts went back to chain drives in many engines for several reasons a big one was, component load, more valves, cams etc.... Chains can stretch much further than any timing belt, depending on particulars of the engine and still work fine. Those chain setups have a higher friction coefficient than any rubber belt. EPA guide lines if not met, cost them money so that loss had to be made up for, aka oil drive belts and drive systems which vary pressure among other things to meet guidelines. The belts today are made with Kevlar not the rubber ingredients of old, plus larger cogs, much shorter and rounded gear teeth not the common squared found in the older timing belts which also went to a more rounded design today to reduce friction and many moved to the Kevlar. See Pictures. So if overall testing shows a certain percentage in friction reduction and says gives them .3% mpg gain toward EPA standards multiply that times the sales numbers. That's big bucks in comparison of not meeting EPA can cost manufactures hundreds of dollars per vehicle. Oil changes and type as others have mentioned are key! Some of those belts are 7-8 years old now with whatever miles. Untold hopped up coyotes with the belt. I can't tell you how many of the old style timing belts I've replaced well above the recommended 70000 miles back then in motors with 120000 plus on them. Bad news lives a long life and strokes fears, where as good news seldom gets reported. Hope this helps with all of ours OCD on the belts but hey we still have warranty, don't we, I hope! Time will tell along with mileage but I'm not going to loose any sleep over it. Ranger On!

 

[JimG]

A lot of interesting thoughts on this. Wet belts are here to stay for now. Doesn’t matter if they’re better or not. It comes down to maintenance for the most part. A well maintained engine will run better and last longer than a neglected one.

We all preform maintenance in a manner which we believe and trust. That mark is different for each of us. There are things an owner can do to watch for signs of failure before failure happens. In most cases, catching and fixing something before it fails will cost about 30% of the cost if failure occurs.

I personally have a bigger problem with headlight costing $1100 just for the part.
I also understand many people suggest buying an extended warranty. Including for a wet belt. Maybe there are some of these warranties that cover these parts, but most will not cover light bulbs. Bulb are considered wearable parts and in most all cases bulbs are not covered. Read your fine print for what’s not covered. I would also guess that if Ford recommends changing a wet belt at some point. If the owner does not preform the scheduled maintenance as suggested by Ford, neither the part or the damage will be covered.

At the end of the day I knew very little about wet belts. I have learned a lot. After my OEM warranty runs out I will definitely check my oil & filter for particles from the belt. Just as I watch my tires and other wear parts for problems before they fail. Thanks for all the great thoughts. Good thread.

Anyway, have a great day and keep her between the white lines.

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