Ford Motor Company Here

[Bt_okst]

I just wouldn't do it, GMC would be getting my business.

Gmc ....

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[Bt_okst]

Frontier actually outsold Ranger for 2022 per data from TFL Truck shown below. But, there have been a lot of moving parts across the different manufacturers over the last couple of years, against a backdrop of changing models and supply chain issues, so IMO drawing conclusions on what the market wants in mid-size isn't clear from the data. Ford needs to be careful though not to misread this and to not assume they can just cut-n-paste F-150 market dynamics understanding onto the mid-range truck market. They already misread the high demand there was going to be for the hybrid in Maverick.

Things will still be skewed for 2023 given minimal new model shipments from either Ford or Toyota. What is known is that the bread and butter for Toyota has been stated to be the TRD Off Road, which perhaps provides a hint as to what has driven mid-size demand in the last few years if not for a much longer time period.

Also Ford should be measuring itself against GM as a whole, not Canyon and Colorado individually. The media is already doing this per TFL and frankly the new GM twins are basically one truck model with 9 trim levels, Canyon doesn't even have a work truck variant. There is more variation and options in Tacoma's 8 new grades than GM's 9 trims.

Ford uses the same plant for the Bronco. They had exceptional demand and fell way behind on bronco production. They turned almost the entire plant's production to bronco to help catch up on its production and demand, thus virtually eliminating ranger production. Then in 2023 they had a very short and limited production run knowing the 24s were coming out. So the last two years of Rangers sales really don't tell you anything at all, except that Ford let Ranger sales slide to accomodate the bronco and to retool the plant for the 2024s. The 24 Ranger production cycle will likely run longer to make up for the short 2023 production run.

We will see once 2024 production ramps up what Ranger sales will truly look like. Plus Ford has said making $ on what they sell, not market share is what they are focused on. So I'm not sure they care whether or not they are at the top of mkt share leadership in this segment. Especially if it means giving away incentives, etc to achieve it.

They didn't emphasize Ranger at all the last two years with bronco demand so high and the maverick being so popular.
We will see now, what Ford does or doesn't want out of the Ranger with this newer version and with them finally bringing a Raptor variant to the market.

 

[Cavemold]

2020 and 2021, the Ranger outsold the Colorado. ’22 everyone was waiting for the new Canyon, ‘23 everyone’s waiting for the new Ranger. I genuinely think that’s the only reason we got the Splash, as a last ditch effort to get rid of some of the spare parts under the guise of new paint.

They are very much eye to eye as competitors

the mpg 23 colorado will hold back some sales. The ranger 2.3l will sell well wonder what the numbers on 2.7 ranger will be? is the same as the bronco? https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Pow...Model=Bronco&srchtyp=ymm&pageno=1&rowLimit=50

 

[Cavemold]

Gmc ....

i have 2021 chevy 2500 Z71 4X4 for towing a trailer and its diesel its pretty nice...

 

[Bt_okst]

i have 2021 chevy 2500 Z71 4X4 for towing a trailer and its diesel its pretty nice...

I've never been a fan of govt motors, but lots of people drive their products

 

[Jason B]

Could not disagree more. This reeks of generational tunnel vision. There is an established customer base that does not want wild looking vehicles full of plastic fascias and looks like a Baja 500 pre runner. I'd wager 90% of buyers want evolutionary modest changes and will buy this before even sniffing anything edgy or muscular looking but impractical for daily drivers and outrageous pricing. The 10% that want to drive Tranformers have 2 great options you mentioned - have at it

Are you talking about the new Tundra? I feel you are talking about the new Tundra.

So what you're saying is that Ford should be OK with their truck being at the bottom of the barrel? The Ranger is outsold by every single midsize truck on the market except the Ridgeline which isn't even a truck. And they should be content with that?

Well, they're going to continue to be eaten alive by the new Tacoma, Colorado, and Canyon. So they're going to get what they asked for.

Frontier actually outsold Ranger for 2022 per data from TFL Truck shown below. But, there have been a lot of moving parts across the different manufacturers over the last couple of years, against a backdrop of changing models and supply chain issues, so IMO drawing conclusions on what the market wants in mid-size isn't clear from the data. Ford needs to be careful though not to misread this and to not assume they can just cut-n-paste F-150 market dynamics understanding onto the mid-range truck market. They already misread the high demand there was going to be for the hybrid in Maverick.

Things will still be skewed for 2023 given minimal new model shipments from either Ford or Toyota. What is known is that the bread and butter for Toyota has been stated to be the TRD Off Road, which perhaps provides a hint as to what has driven mid-size demand in the last few years if not for a much longer time period.

Also Ford should be measuring itself against GM as a whole, not Canyon and Colorado individually. The media is already doing this per TFL and frankly the new GM twins are basically one truck model with 9 trim levels, Canyon doesn't even have a work truck variant. There is more variation and options in Tacoma's 8 new grades than GM's 9 trims.

Can't sell what you don't have. Ranger sales were low because they aren't being produced due to demand for Bronco's.

 

[Bt_okst]

Are you talking about the new Tundra? I feel you are talking about the new Tundra.





Can't sell what you don't have. Ranger sales were low because they aren't being produced due to demand for Bronco's.

They were neither produced nor marketed or pushed.

 

[Ranger#5?]

Frontier actually outsold Ranger for 2022 per data from TFL Truck shown below. But, there have been a lot of moving parts across the different manufacturers over the last couple of years, against a backdrop of changing models and supply chain issues, so IMO drawing conclusions on what the market wants in mid-size isn't clear from the data. Ford needs to be careful though not to misread this and to not assume they can just cut-n-paste F-150 market dynamics understanding onto the mid-range truck market. They already misread the high demand there was going to be for the hybrid in Maverick.

Things will still be skewed for 2023 given minimal new model shipments from either Ford or Toyota. What is known is that the bread and butter for Toyota has been stated to be the TRD Off Road, which perhaps provides a hint as to what has driven mid-size demand in the last few years if not for a much longer time period.

Also Ford should be measuring itself against GM as a whole, not Canyon and Colorado individually. The media is already doing this per TFL and frankly the new GM twins are basically one truck model with 9 trim levels, Canyon doesn't even have a work truck variant. There is more variation and options in Tacoma's 8 new grades than GM's 9 trims.

Yes, I did allude to the fact it was known that the 6G was taking over for 5G and sales were expectedly reduced in 2022 and 2023 as a result of production ramp down at MAP. I discount that from overall trends. Look back from 2021 to 2019 for a clearer picture. Having said that, Ranger STILL outsold Ridgeline and Canyon in a planned reduced production and availability year. I don't give any weight to the combined GM figures either. As long as GM promotes them separately and lists their sales figures separately, so will I

 

[MJE]

I've never been a fan of govt motors, but lots of people drive their products

I hadn’t been either, though I had a 90s GMC which was just fine for its time. Partially because of their designs and partially because of the whole govt motors thing. But I gotta admit, their Canyon Denali is the first thing I’ve seen from them since the govt motors thing which entices me to step into one of their dealerships & check it out! It’s honestly fair to compare it with Ranger & Tacoma too.

I was genuinely shocked at the mileage a buddy of mine gets out of his Silverado 1500 diesel. He can match my bronco sport on the highway (obviously he has to put DEF in it and deal with diesel purchase & maintenance costs) for economy. That shouldn’t be possible in the size of a half ton but they do it.

 

[RaptorFP]

Could not disagree more. This reeks of generational tunnel vision. There is an established customer base that does not want wild looking vehicles full of plastic fascias and looks like a Baja 500 pre runner. I'd wager 90% of buyers want evolutionary modest changes and will buy this before even sniffing anything edgy or muscular looking but impractical for daily drivers and outrageous pricing. The 10% that want to drive Tranformers have 2 great options you mentioned - have at it

I'm curious to hear what are you basing your percentages on? What's your sample size to this calculation? Just because you don't want an offroad truck doesn't mean that no one else does. You're free to go buy a Lariat or XLT with the chrome package or the basic XL. Hence why they offer different trims and packages.

 

[Ranger#5?]

I'm curious to hear what are you basing your percentages on? What's your sample size to this calculation? Just because you don't want an offroad truck doesn't mean that no one else does. You're free to go buy a Lariat or XLT with the chrome package or the basic XL. Hence why they offer different trims and packages.

you're twisting my words. There was never a Ranger Raptor sold (USA) before, so EVERY Ranger sold to date was not a purpose-built high performance mid-size off road truck. That's a sample size of 100% in the 100s of thousands sold. THAT is the reliable base they need to maintain and increase. Many people do option up and max out with FX-4 or Tremor packages (again very recent and limited #s), and many people add aftermarket goodies to make the truck work better offroad- but the data is out there a vast majority of people that buy trucks NEVER take them off-road at all. I'm not going to look that up for you- easily searchable yourself.

I grew up in SoCal in the 1970s - 2000s and was into off-roading early. Also off road camping to get to spots where we could camp and ride. I was along for the ride with Dune buggy evolution, pre-runners, and going off pavement in any manner of 4x4 or VW Baja bugs- whatever we had went off pavement. I now live in a rural, agricultural, farming, ranching area and nearly everyone has a 4x4 of some type, but most never see dirt strictly to go play. I have 1 4x4, 2 AWD. Far more likely it is for peace of mind driving in all conditions because we DO get real weather here in Colorado.

You want a lifted truck that makes a statement and costs a ton doing it? Great, go for it! There's something for everyone now! Just don't mistake the strong desire of a sliver of the truck buying public for massive demand for top of the line off road focused versions with radical departure styling based on current popular culture.

As always YMMV

 

[Steve Boehm]

Is Ford going to do anything to curb dealers adding market adjustment prices that are absurd? I am first in line at my local dealer for a raptor allotment and I can afford MSRP Plus the usual reasonable fees. However the dealer will force my hand to becoming a customer of another company if they turn around and add an unreasonable ADM which I suspect is going to be between $10,000 and $25,000 on this vehicle.

I've been wanting a Ranger since they finally brought it back to the US. Once I heard a new version was on the horizon, I decided to wait.
I can afford the Raptor, so that's what I want. But I refuse to pay above MSRP or anything. I don't NEED a new car so if it comes down to getting ripped off by a greedy dealer or sticking with old used cars, I'll take the old cars any day.

 

[BadBoyBillyRaptorRanger]

Thanks for letting dealers, F customers over with dealer markups! I had a Raptor order at MSRP I went to place the order sorry it’s a 10k markup.

 

[RaptorFP]

you're twisting my words. There was never a Ranger Raptor sold (USA) before, so EVERY Ranger sold to date was not a purpose-built high performance mid-size off road truck. That's a sample size of 100% in the 100s of thousands sold. THAT is the reliable base they need to maintain and increase. Many people do option up and max out with FX-4 or Tremor packages (again very recent and limited #s), and many people add aftermarket goodies to make the truck work better offroad- but the data is out there a vast majority of people that buy trucks NEVER take them off-road at all. I'm not going to look that up for you- easily searchable yourself.

I grew up in SoCal in the 1970s - 2000s and was into off-roading early. Also off road camping to get to spots where we could camp and ride. I was along for the ride with Dune buggy evolution, pre-runners, and going off pavement in any manner of 4x4 or VW Baja bugs- whatever we had went off pavement. I now live in a rural, agricultural, farming, ranching area and nearly everyone has a 4x4 of some type, but most never see dirt strictly to go play. I have 1 4x4, 2 AWD. Far more likely it is for peace of mind driving in all conditions because we DO get real weather here in Colorado.

You want a lifted truck that makes a statement and costs a ton doing it? Great, go for it! There's something for everyone now! Just don't mistake the strong desire of a sliver of the truck buying public for massive demand for top of the line off road focused versions with radical departure styling based on current popular culture.

As always YMMV

Whether someone buys their truck to take it offroad or not is irrelevant to what people want to buy. Also it's not a valid case study since it excluded the Raptor therefore majority of people buying the Ranger were always going to be people who arent looking for an offroad specific truck. For a more fair study/comparison we should look at 6g numbers or peek over to competition for ZR2 or TRD Pro sales vs non offriad specific trims. If someone wants to buy a Raptor because they like the look so be it, it's none of my or anyone else's business really how they intend to use it. You could make the same case study for all the cars with spoilers and how many people actually take their cars to racetracks. That's not the point however. It's what people want to buy that drives demand for a product, not how they intend to use it.

Ford is already maintaining the core base of buyers by offering 3 different non offroad trims of the Ranger. Not sure how much more are you expecting? That's a genuine question because I don't see how Ford is not offering what you say most people want from a Ranger. You have 3 trims to tailor to yourself with options that are not offroad focused.

 

[LuckyMonkey7]

It may have already been said here, but some major wants by potential customers are:

crew cab and 6' bed (potentially tremor package available if that will exist)
sunroofs suck, but some crazy people here want them

rear ac vents like the austrialian ranger
ventilated seats like the european ranger
^^ not having these two is major insult to the home country of ford when they are available elsewhere

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